Out of Battery Ignition, How Frequent?

[Mark D]

Segue from the 9mm vs .45 1911 thread...

Things I really do not like about 9mm 1911s, the longer than standard ejector that can result in out of battery ignition if ejecting a live round and it gets caught between the edge of the ejection port and turned sideways. I’ve seen it happen in real life and on the gunternet, it is an issue. A medium-length ejector can work and prevent this, but most factory 9mm guns are setup with a LONG ejector.

A couple of my early instructors warned students not to cup a hand over the ejection port to capture an ejected live round, because of the possibility of an out of battery ignition. According to them, the possible injury to one's hand could be severe.

I've also seen national level shooters and instructors use this very method to capture a live round when unloading. I mentioned it to REDACTED at a class once, and he looked at me like I was an idiot and said he'd never heard of it.

How big a risk is it really, assuming we're using a stock modern pistol (G19/HK/Beretta/M&P/etc)?

Edit: Removed instructor's name to help keep the discussion focused on the main issue, not the instructor.
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[RevolverRob]

So the thing to remember about the 9mm 1911 example. It’s a case of multiple factors stacking to cause an issue.

The 1911 dimensions are designed around a longer cartridge. The shorter 9mms basically have enough room with the slide retracted to be able to “bounce around a bit” when a live round is being ejected. This PLUS the longer nose of the standard 9mm 1911 ejector is what makes this particular problem more common in the 1911.

In other pistols designed around the 9mm cartridge you’ll have shorter ejectors + shorter slide stroke that matches the cartridge. For the vast majority of modern guns I wouldn’t worry too much about it. There isn’t enough room, really, for the cartridge to get jammed in that way, instead you would usually end up with a stove pipe.

FWIW, my preferred method for this administrative loading is to drop the mag and pull the slide back until the round bumps the ejector, but not enough to force the round out the ejection port, instead, just let it dribble out of the mag well.

[olstyn]

The ejector of any pistol is a pointy, stiff piece of metal. Ram a primer into it and it's certainly possible for it to set off the primer. It's probably relatively low probability, but it's definitely possible, and there are plenty of other ways of recovering an ejected cartridge. I file covering the ejection port with your hand under "not worth the risk" because of the stakes part of the odd/stakes calculation. I really don't need my hand blown up.

[Lon]

I know of 3 different out of battery detonations that have happened to me or friends of mine

Mine - back in 2009/2010 at a big USPSA match. Had one with my .40 2011. Have that one on video as well as the casing that went off. Occurred after a FTF all the way. Part of casing ended up in my finger. Nothing big, just did a little range surgery with a knife. About a week later I cut the rest out sitting at m desk at work. Blew the magazine out the bottom. Cracked the top of the slide as well.



Maybe a year later a friend had one with a .38 Super Comp 2011 open gun as he was unloading and showing clear. Part of the casing ended up in his neck. He was care flighted from the range.

Third one happened with a 90’s manufactured Sig 228. Occurred during a reload with a partial mag. The bottom of the slide hit the primer and detonated the round. Part of the casing is still in the arm of an Officer (now a Chief) I know. There’s a reason the bottom of Sig slides are all now radiused instead of having a 90 degree corner. Sig was aware of the issue when we called them.



So 3 examples out of literally millions of rounds fired I’ve been around over the course of 25+ years of competing and police work.

[Nephrology]

I know of 3 different out of battery detonations that have happened to me or friends of mine

Mine - back in 2009/2010 at a big USPSA match. Had one with my .40 2011. Have that one on video as well as the casing that went off. Occurred after a FTF all the way. Part of casing ended up in my finger. Nothing big, just did a little range surgery with a knife. About a week later I cut the rest out sitting at m desk at work. Blew the magazine out the bottom. Cracked the top of the slide as well.

Yikes. Still shoot 2011s these days?

[farscott]

Back when I shot Limited 10 (early 2000s) with my SVI .40, a shooting buddy had the same basic pistol. Both SVI .40 built by the same guy. At the end of the stage, he cycled the slide to eject the loaded round. The primer hit the ejector. Of course, the case failed, spraying his hand with brass and powder. He was shaken but okay, but I never again covered the ejection port to catch a live round.

Somewhere I have the video showing the incident.

[JTQ]

Ernest Langdon within the first minute of this video on the Beretta 92 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VP4X6FVa4E

There used to be a Clint Smith (probably an FMG Pubs video) video on mag changes (I think it was on Administrative reloads) where he mentions the same comment Langdon does, but I can't find it now.

[Lon]

Yikes. Still shoot 2011s these days?

Nope. Sold that one after getting it fixed. Been shooting mostly stock guns since.

Here’s the casing:

[Trooper224]

Witnessed it once back in the 90's with a Glock 21. Not an advisable procedure.

[Mark D]

Good info folks. I'll continue to let the round hit the deck.