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Thread: Broward County SD

  1. #21
    Mr. Shovel Lover Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paherne View Post
    From the quotes I've seen from the decision, posted on another site, the contract required BSO to complete the investigation within 180 days and they failed to do so. The arbitrator found in favor of the Sergeant due to BSO's failure to follow the rules. IME, people love "technicalities" when the ball bounces in their favor, and detest them when a miscarriage of "justice" occurs.
    They should fire whoever didn't know there was a deadline, but they'll blame the union for saving the guy when the truth is that BCSO fucked it up and handed the guy his job on a platter. I wish I could say that this level of stupidity isn't common, but it wouldn't be true. The basic qualifications for most of our city administration jobs were the correct party affiliation, soft lips, and the spoils system.
    If he hears his name, he will literally come over here and rip our faces off.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Poconnor View Post
    Sometimes it’s cheaper to assign somebody to an empty room and give them something appropriate for their skill. In this case That means give them nothing to do. Just let them stew.
    At my current job, I used to mentor people pretty frequently. In the past I had helped folks who had a good work ethic, but were struggling, achieve a c+ level of performance, which was good enough. I had made a strong case for keeping a couple others at the agency, albeit in a different position, because they were good workers but just didn't have the noodle for that particular job.

    I was once assigned someone with a motivation and ethics problem. My first, informal recommendation was that we fire her. I was informed that even though she was still in her probationary period, that wasn't happening. My second, written recommendation was that since we couldn't fire her, we should pay her to sit in a cubicle and watch YouTube all day, because that way she couldn't fuck things up other people would have to fix.

    It was quite a while before they asked me to mentor again.
    I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.

  3. #23
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    To investigate how often fired officers were returned to their jobs, The Post filed open records requests with the nation’s 55 largest municipal and county police forces. Thirty-seven departments complied with the request, disclosing that they had fired a combined 1,881 officers since 2006. Of those officers, 451 successfully appealed and won their jobs back.
    That's a better rate than I'd have imagined.

  4. #24
    Member Trooper224's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    That's a better rate than I'd have imagined.
    In order to get a truer comparison to what we're talking about here, you'd have to break that down into categories for termination: politics, personal vendetta (both of which happen more often than people realize) vs. lack of job performance and incompetence/malfeasance. We'd also have to take into consideration those who were terminated and gained employment with another agency, which also happens more often than people realize.
    Bring me my broadsword and clear understanding.

  5. #25
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Reasonable. My surprise was that agencies managed to succeed that often. I only to worked up a termination packet on one non-trainee and, regrettably, that employee was incapable of meeting standards, performing the job and it led to his termination. There was nothing else involving him after he was escorted out the door.

    Some years back, whatever the big New Jersey paper is did an article on lawsuits against agencies. Over 60% of the lawsuits against agencies were by their own employees.

  6. #26
    Member Trooper224's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    Reasonable. My surprise was that agencies managed to succeed that often. I only to worked up a termination packet on one non-trainee and, regrettably, that employee was incapable of meeting standards, performing the job and it led to his termination. There was nothing else involving him after he was escorted out the door.

    Some years back, whatever the big New Jersey paper is did an article on lawsuits against agencies. Over 60% of the lawsuits against agencies were by their own employees.
    Considering the overall toxicity of leadership in law enforcement, I'm surprised it's that low.
    Bring me my broadsword and clear understanding.

  7. #27
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    A friend of mine became embroiled in internal affairs investigations some many years ago. While I doubt he was without sin, the investigations were more internal than external in nature (approval for off-duty employment and similar issues). He responded in kind and various supervisors were found to have violated various personnel rules and department directives. While various outside arbitrators ruled against the department, no disciplinary action was ever taken against supervisors breaking the rules that they so strictly held subordinates to. As Erick says, I'm surprised that nationwide agencies do as well as they do in terminating real screw-ups.

    I should call my friend tomorrow and tell him that I mentioned his issues back in the day. Of course, now I have to call him "boss".

  8. #28
    Mr. Shovel Lover Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trooper224 View Post
    In order to get a truer comparison to what we're talking about here, you'd have to break that down into categories for termination: politics, personal vendetta (both of which happen more often than people realize) vs. lack of job performance and incompetence/malfeasance. We'd also have to take into consideration those who were terminated and gained employment with another agency, which also happens more often than people realize.
    And those who were incarcerated or unable to work in LE after criminal conviction.
    If he hears his name, he will literally come over here and rip our faces off.

  9. #29
    Member rob_s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    That sort of knowledge isn't valued. It's not sexy, it's not trendy, and it's not going to get you noticed and moved into appointed ranks. It's something for somebody else to know.
    Having previously lived in that county, and having done construction work at probably more than a dozen schools there in the early 2000s, a few comments...

    In Palm Beach County, one county to the north of Broward, the school, district has its own sworn police force. So when you go to work there, you know what you’re getting into. In Broward, the always-power-hungry SO provides the school resource officers to the school district. Understanding that in Florida the school districts span the entire county, and IIRC at one time that made Broward the largest school-managing body in the country. Each county school district can decide to use the SO or have their own department, or even rely on the local PDs for their SROs, IIRC. for those that are using the PD or the SO, one of those officers/deputies went to work for their respective agencies planning on “babysitting kids”.

    What I saw in SROs back then was two main types: one was the guy that wasn’t really any good at anything else, maybe even realized himself that he was cut out for policing, so they stuck him there until he quit or retired. The other was a guy that they figured out did well with kids, liked working with them, and was a good fit for the job. I met a lot more of the former than the latter.

    A lot of the former also get stuck at schools like Douglas. That would have been thought of as a kush gig, with little to no real trouble, even post-Columbine. Nobody would ever have expected what happened there to happen. Not saying they shouldn’t have prepared for it, but they clear,y weren’t expecting it. So to think that the brass stuck a guy that maybe wasn’t entirely cut out for policing to begin with at the school to camp out is very plausible. Hell, he may have even been quite affable and liked by the rich kids for letting them get away with hiding a little grass in the $80k car they parked on campus every day.

    Having graduated from a northern Florida high school myself, our district also had SOs as SROs. The first one we had was a DICK. He was clearly the type not cut out for policing, but once he got a bunch of kids under him he took it out on them/us. The second guy, Deputy Rory, was awesome. And I say this as a former “bad kid” that got pulled out of class by him on the reg. Sometimes for things that happened at school, and sometimes for things I might know about that were happening or happened outside of school. If LE figures out that a kid might be involved in something they were investigating, the SOP seemed to be at the time to be to contact the SRO at the school, and have them make first contact with the kids since they likely already knew him. Rory always treated me and mine fairly, and we always knew what we had or hadn’t actually done. But Rory was no bitch. While I wasn’t the best behaved, my crew wasn’t terribly violent, and rarely so in a way that got the attention of the cops and never towards adults. But we saw him fuck some motherfuckers up, right on campus, when he needed to. Body slams into a wall and then the ground and cuffed. In an age before cell phone videos made those kinds of things seem “bad” on the internet.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Poconnor View Post
    Sometimes it’s cheaper to assign somebody to an empty room and give them something appropriate for their skill. In this case That means give them nothing to do. Just let them stew.
    20 years ago that was more of a punishment than it is today. Now there are employees who’d relish collecting a paycheck while sitting in a room listening to music, surfing the web on their phone. You’d need to find a room with thick enough walls, buried deep in the building so they can’t get a signal.


    Quote Originally Posted by jnc36rcpd View Post
    I do question how realistic BSO's active shooter training actually was. If an agency beats into officers that the best response to critical incidents is to wait for SWAT and doesn't train people what an active assailant incident looks and sounds like, I suspect we'll see tactical dithering from some well-intentioned,but ill-trained people.
    Their program was like most and taught them to run to the sound of gunfire. The problem was not the training. It was the deputies in that part of the county. As @RobS mentioned Parkland is a cushy assignment. BSO has a few places like that - Parkland, Southwest Ranches, Weston. Those are the districts where the lazy or in this case scared Deputies flock to because the most exciting thing they’ll probably do is give a soccer mom a ticket in her minivan. The hard charging deputies - the ones you want there when your kid’s school is under attack... they are in Pompano Beach, Oakland Park, Lauderdale Lakes, etc. Or they are in a specialized unit.

    That’s the problem with any large county or city. You can take the hard charger deputies and officers and assign them to the boring area but they will keep trying to go where the action is or they’ll find another agency. If you assign the scared or lazy folks to the dangerous areas they will get someone killed. And usually it’s not themselves but a fellow officer or citizen.

    While it’s easy to ID the problem, I have no idea how to fix it or I’d write a book and consult for big money. And the larger the agency the more challenging this all will be.

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