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Thread: Week 372: The Two Second Standards Part 1

  1. #1
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Gaming In The Streets

    Week 372: The Two Second Standards Part 1

    Week 372: The Two Second Standards Part 1

    Results may be posted until June 20th, 2020.

    Designed by: Hardwired Tactical Shooting
    Range: 3 and 5 yards
    Target: B8 bull (black only) - download here: https://pistol-forum.com/attachment....1&d=1322428748
    Start Position: Holstered or ready
    Rounds Fired: Varies
    Par Time: 2 seconds

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs
    In a close range deadly force confrontation, time will be the most critical commodity. The armed citizen/officer responding to the threat will have very little time to make effective shots on the adversary (ies) posing the threat. While every fight is different, my proposal is that we must achieve effective hits (and as many as possible) within no more than a two second window at the beginning of hostilities.
    This week we're going to focus on the most core aspects of the two second standards: presentation of the handgun from the holster and from ready, and shooting the B8 bull at 3 and 5 yards, with 100% hits under the time limit. We'll repeat this drill at some point in the future and widen the scope to a greater variety of tasks and distances.

    String 1: Place the target at 3 yards and start in ready position of your choice. At the start signal, shoot as many rounds to the black B8 bull as possible. Record the number of hits you got within the par time. If you have any misses (shots outside the black bull) your score is zero. Overtime shots that HIT do not score any points but also do not result in a zero for the string - they just don't count for anything.

    String 2: Repeat string 1, but starting from the holster.

    String 3: Place the target at 5 yards and start in ready position of your choice. At the start signal, shoot as many rounds to the black B8 bull as possible. Record the number of hits you got within the par time. If you have any misses (shots outside the black bull) your score is zero. Overtime shots that HIT do not score any points but also do not result in a zero for the string - they just don't count for anything.

    String 4: Repeat string 3, but starting from the holster.

    If you completed all four strings with no misses, you Pass. If you have any misses, you Fail.

    Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

    Equipment used (pistol, holster, optional concealment garment if one was used)
    Score on String 1
    Score on String 2
    Score on String 3
    Score on String 4
    Grand Total Score
    Pass or Fail
    Anything you noticed

    Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.
    Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
    Lord of the Food Court
    http://www.gabewhitetraining.com

  2. #2
    Equipment used: Glock 19 Gen 4, Ameriglo sights (exact make unknown). TTI connector, Wolff 5# striker spring, Wolff reduced power firing pin safety plunger spring. Dark Star Gear Orion, under a t-shirt.

    Score on String 1: 29-2X (1 overtime shot, since I didn't call it precisely I deducted the highest point shot)
    Score on String 2: 29
    Score on String 3: 19 (1 overtime shot, since I didn't call it precisely I deducted the highest point shot)
    Score on String 4: 10-1X
    Grand Total Score: 87-3X
    Pass or Fail: Pass

    Anything you noticed:
    • With this type of "highly accountable" shooting, I seem to take a lot more time on visual confirmation using irons vs using the red dot. Up to this point I have thought red dots to be unnecessary on carry guns despite shooting one in USPSA, because of the short distances involved in most CCW shootings, but if the target zone is like a B8 bull and misses are unacceptable, I may reconsider. Kind of food for thought.
    • The pace of highly accountable shooting is totally different (I think?). At 3 yards on a 3x5 card I would normally be willing and able to split anywhere from 0.17 to 0.30, and accept a few misses (for most drills). On the 3 yard strings here I was splitting around 0.5s, even on a larger target. Might change if I shot more B8s at this distance and got used to the acceptable sight picture.
    • I recently put in the TTI connector and the springs. I wouldn't say they make a huge difference but I think I am less likely to fling a shot way out if my grip is off.
    • These sights seem to hit dead on the dot which is not what I'm used to, don't really like it for this kind of shooting.

  3. #3
    For what it’s worth, Darryl said in class a couple years ago that you can add 0.3 seconds if you’re using turning targets.

    This may vary by target system. Personally, on the range where I most often use turning targets, I add 0.2 - it seems more comparable to my beep times.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Nerd View Post
    For what it’s worth, Darryl said in class a couple years ago that you can add 0.3 seconds if you’re using turning targets.

    This may vary by target system. Personally, on the range where I most often use turning targets, I add 0.2 - it seems more comparable to my beep times.
    Yes, Hackathorn and others have commented the .3 secs.was a cushion as that was the length of the buzzer.
    I shot this on the Dept. indoor range late today, as we are opening up!
    Gen5G26 w/BOLD sights(orange front-great sight),out of a Safariland GLS, unconcealed. Scores:
    S1:20, S2:20, S3:10(2nd shot over@.31-discounted),S4:10. TOTAL=60. PASS, as all Xs/10s.
    I was very aware of working the trigger carefully, as this is a “no screw up” exercise-get good hit(s). Hard focus on fundamentals.
    I like this drill/eval., and will run it again, maybe concealed, w/RDS, etc.
    Thanks for the work getting it out to us.

  5. #5
    Misbegotten Malcontent
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    NE Indiana
    5" m&p 2.0 w/ dawson's
    Dark star gear Orion w/dcc clips/ phlster tuckstrut
    T shirt for concealment
    Ready position was low ready, muzzle pointed 3 feet away from my feet

    String 1 - 4 hits in 2.00 (fired 10 in 3.88 before i realized i was ot, all hits)

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    String 2 - 3 hits in 1.94 (fired 6 hits in 2.67 ot, all hits)

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    String 3 - 2 hits in 1.58 (fired 3 in 2.06 ot, all hits)

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    String 4 - 2 hits in 1.92 (fired 3 in 2.38 ot, all hits)

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    11 points total

    Pass

    I struggled to hear the beep while shooting. I tried to not let that slow me down and focus on reading the sights and pressing the trigger as fast as necessary to get the hits. I'll have to look and see what i did last time we ran this for comparison.

    Looks like i did a 7 last time, so it's nice to see an improvement over time. I think a lot of that can be attributed to the work I've been putting in cleaning up my draw since then. Cool
    Last edited by backtrail540; 05-29-2020 at 05:54 PM.
    "No, I don't think. Nor do I assume, speculate or hypothesise. I merely observe."

  6. #6
    PF9C
    DIY AIWB
    Concealed, T shirt

    Only hits under par count, so:

    1 = 3 hits in 1.98, 30
    2 = 1 hit in 1.66 (2nd hit at 2.10, oh well!), 10
    3 = 3 hits in 1.79, 29
    4 = 1 hit in 1.92, 10

    Score=79
    PASS

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    Gotta say, I hate the fact that this drill is a FAIL if you get just one hit out of the black. Initial reaction is "that's unrealistic for a combat oriented drill".

    I do realize, however, that that factor is meant to induce stress, and cause a maximum focus on accuracy, which it does.

    Knowing I couldn't miss the black, even once, made it very challenging, as others have experienced.

    I'm in a good place with my shooting where I know my limits. My realistic expectations were to get 1-2 good hits per string.

    If it were "anywhere on the bull under par", I would have run faster, both eyes open. Felt like I had to slow down, and get the required hits, to avoid ruining the whole exercise.

    ETA: I know it looks like I have 2 hits in the 9 ring, but I swear the one on the lower left DID break the line!

    But if I must accept the score being 78, I can live with that!

  7. #7
    Misbegotten Malcontent
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    NE Indiana
    Glock 43x
    Henry aiwb
    T shirt concealment

    String 1 - 3 points (4 hits in 2.13)

    String 2 - 2 points (3 hits in 2.19)

    String 3 - 2 points (2hits in 1.76)

    String 4 - 1 point (2 hits in 2.10)

    Total - 8 points

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    I had a chance to borrow a friend's 43x to do a mini eval on and ran this as part of the evaluation. For a gun I've had less than 50 rounds on and having black glock night sights, as opposed to a bright front that I'm accustomed to, I'm fairly happy. Pretty easy gun to shoot well, especially considering the size. The serrated trigger isn't my fav but otherwise i liked the package overall. If i ever move back to glock, this will be in consideration.
    "No, I don't think. Nor do I assume, speculate or hypothesise. I merely observe."

  8. #8
    Site Supporter Irelander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    PA
    HK P2000SK 9mm
    JMCK George
    T-shirt concealment
    String 1: 3
    String 2: 1
    String 3: 2
    String 4: 1
    Total: 7
    PASS

    Walther PPS Classic 9mm
    Keepers Errand
    T-shirt concealment
    String 1: 4
    String 2: 1
    String 3: 2
    String 4: 1
    Total: 8
    PASS

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    Last edited by Irelander; 06-02-2020 at 05:18 PM.
    He will hold me fast
    He will hold me fast
    For my Savior loves me so
    He will hold me fast

  9. #9
    Shot this yesterday with a coworker-Gen5G19MOS w/ACRO and TLR8A(green laser)mounted, out of a JMCK OWB2 concealed under a shirt.
    S1: 4 S2:2 S3:1 S4:0(!) On String 4 I just got tangled up in the shirt on the draw-buzzer sounded and I stopped “en pointe”. 7/70 total, PASS, all Xs and 10s.
    I’m a little encouraged by the increase in hits, embarrassed by the flubbed draw. Will try this again to redeem myself.
    Another reminder to dry practice concealed draw.
    Side note: activated laser from ready at 3&5: centered hits.

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