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Thread: To download or not to download that is the question

  1. #1
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    To download or not to download that is the question

    If i'm not mistaken isn't it the current prevailing wisdom that: compressing and uncompressing a spring is what will cause it to wear out rather than leaving it compressed ? If so, I've heard a lot of advice regarding downloading your home defense shotgun by one shell in order prevent wearing out the spring. Any merit to this, or just a myth?

  2. #2
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    I've got personal and an issued shotgun that have stayed loaded to capacity for decades with on ill effect. I have my grandfather's old pump Stevens and it's been loaded to capacity for *at least* 50 years.

    Note I don't know about the new high speed extend-o tubes that hold a box and a half of shells, but for the standard or old +2 extensions I've never seen it be an issue or heard anyone say it could be.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  3. #3
    Site Supporter Trooper224's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaglocker View Post
    If i'm not mistaken isn't it the current prevailing wisdom that: compressing and uncompressing a spring is what will cause it to wear out rather than leaving it compressed ?
    Yes.

    If so, I've heard a lot of advice regarding downloading your home defense shotgun by one shell in order prevent wearing out the spring. Any merit to this, or just a myth?
    No.
    We may lose and we may win, but we will never be here again.......

  4. #4
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    I've left my 20 year old 870, (with a +2 extension), at capacity for as long as I've owned it, other than when emptied during range use. Never had an issue.
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  5. #5
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Shotguns have such limited capacity that even if it was true that loading fully decreased the life of the mag spring (it isn't), I would still load to capacity. Replacing a mag spring periodically is a minor concern.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
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  6. #6
    Member 98z28's Avatar
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    I've had to replace the spring in my Mossberg 590a1 a few times over the last 15 years, but that's a known issue with those guns. I don't think there was much PM done on our 20+ year old 870's, certainly the mag tube springs were not changed. They always ran fine.

    Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaglocker View Post
    If i'm not mistaken isn't it the current prevailing wisdom that: compressing and uncompressing a spring is what will cause it to wear out rather than leaving it compressed ? If so, I've heard a lot of advice regarding downloading your home defense shotgun by one shell in order prevent wearing out the spring. Any merit to this, or just a myth?
    The magazine spring in your typical shotgun is thin and will pretty easily take a set.

    Magazine springs for your typical shotgun are also cheap and easily replaced.

    Of greater concern to me, at least, is the integrity of the rounds inside the magazine. Shotgun shells can bulge and swell. Some types of shotgun shells are being thrown out the door with pretty shoddy construction these days. (Remington, Winchester...I stick to Federal) It's possible for shells in the magazine to become deformed and hinder the function of the gun. Some say that loading the magazine to full capacity contributes to this.

    Keep in mind that a fair bit of the conventional wisdom around best practices for the defensive shotgun comes from police use. Often police use where the guns were hardly ever maintained. As an experiment, find ten current or former police officers who knew a bit about their department's maintenance practices and ask them what their schedule was for replacing magazine springs in their issued shotguns. If you get less than ten blank stares I'll buy you a cup of coffee.

    In police use, the guns were kept in cruisers where the shells inside that magazine tube were constantly being moved around as the cruiser went down the road. When a shotgun sat in a vertical mount, the shells inside the tube are subject to the laws of physics. If you loaded a shotgun to full capacity with the spring compressed completely and you spent your time hopping curbs, going over railroad tracks, and going through pot holes the shells didn't really have anywhere to go except into each other, smashing nose to tail. Given the weight involved and the construction of shells, it wouldn't be at all surprising to find shells that have been bulged or split by slamming into each other as a result of impact.

    Generally speaking a typical citizen defender is not subjecting their shotgun to anything close to those forces. Nor do they have a policy requirement to leave room for a shell in case they need to perform a slug select. Nor are they using a shotgun that gets handed around amongst multiple minimally trained officers where the same four shells are loaded into it over and over and over again every shift. (Some departments) Nor are they using a shotgun that hasn't left the cruiser since the last time it was fired in a qual...etc.

    So, the answer I'd give is this:

    There are some LE practices that evolved for decent reasons even if the official reason given isn't accurate.

    Citizen defenders are usually not contending with the same contextual restrictions that LE agencies do.

    So what do I do?

    I load my shotgun magazines to full capacity. I don't keep slugs on my gun because I'm in a suburban neighborhood and it's a home defense gun. No need to take long shots or interdict vehicles. I have rifles handy should the extremely unusual event occur where I need to use something at greater than 25 yards. I have no foreseeable need to slug select outside of a class environment. My gun spends most of its time sitting still so there's no concern about what life in a vehicle does to the ammo in the mag tube.

    I change the magazine springs in the guns that I use preemptively. Admittedly I am using my defensive shotguns far more than most people. (Kind of goes along with the teaching gig) I end up loading and emptying them (either administratively or ballistically) far more than most people will. So my magazine springs are seeing more cycles than most people's defensive shotguns ever will. Still, magazine springs are cheap and it's really easy to change them when you are cleaning the gun, so why not replace them once a year?

    I cycle through my defensive ammo regularly. I will shoot the rounds I keep loaded in the gun a couple of times a year and replace them with new ones. Another artifact of teaching: I shoot a fair amount of my defensive ammo every year demonstrating patterning. I tend to keep a baggie or box of defensive ammo I've cycled out because it's been chambered multiple times or it's been waiting in case of defensive need for a prolonged period. I'll shoot that in demos or, occasionally if I have enough, in some dedicated practice.

    I think that the risk of magazine spring problems and/or shell deformation problems that may result from a fully loaded magazine is sufficiently small to the typical citizen defender that it's not necessary for them to observe the practice of downloading their tube by one shell. I would also strongly encourage preemptively replacing magazine springs and cycling through your defensive ammunition at least once a year.
    3/15/2016

  8. #8
    Site Supporter ST911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98z28 View Post
    I've had to replace the spring in my Mossberg 590a1 a few times over the last 15 years, but that's a known issue with those guns.
    Mossberg 12ga OEM mag springs suck. Replace annually, more with exceptional use, and consider aftermarket XP.
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  9. #9
    A spring operating within its design range wears out do to cycles. (I am not an engineer but my wife is)

    It seems like some magazines (pistol esp.) push the design limits of their springs in the name of capacity.

  10. #10
    Member L-2's Avatar
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    As mentioned in Post-7, my main training and SOP (standard operating procedure) was to download the mag tube by one; more easily allowing for an ammo/slug select procedure; nothing at all to do with worrying about mag spring life.

    I've tried using my shotgun(s) with the mag tube full, but the ammo-switching/select procedure is different. Even though now retired and not bound by department SOP, I still prefer the downloading-the mag tube-by-one method. I do carry both slugs and double-aught in/on my shotguns. I'm not a clay/trap/skeet/competition shooter. All my shotguns are for antipersonnel use.

    If I only loaded & carried one type of ammo (all 00, or all slugs), then I'd definitely fully load the mag tube.

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