The PT-92 thread

[Medusa]

My 3 tn 92s are good. So is my old md inox 92. What I believe is what I own and shoot. No more, no less. Ommv.

[HCM]

As I stated, this gun is at 3-5k rounds tops. It didn't much see shooting from the time I went off to college to when dad gave me custody in 2010 or so. It has maybe seen 500 rounds in the past ten years? 2FTEs, ever.

Magazines are pretty shot, tho. I don't think the ban era yellow follower low caps were worth much to begin with.

Mostly this line pf thinking has been inspired by the thought of popping a Langdon trigger bar in my px4, then wondering about one in the Taurus, then realizing the take-up and reset is shorter on my PT92 than my px4 with Beretta target trigger.

That led to me thinking: "why the hell should I keep dumping $$$ into my px 4 to try to equal my PT 92?"

My other question to myself: does any of this fretting about 'feel' translate to improved performance from me? And the answer is NO. I proved this to myself during two birthday parties of mine where a bunch of 9mm pistols were around. I pretty much shoot one TDA about as well as another. My skillset is not well developed enough to show the effect of small changes on pistols.

More than some lifetime commitment to going back to the PT92, this public declaration is more about completely embracing the fact that it's about me, not the gun, and other than durability (maybe 😘 ), my first pick at age 15 was a decent one.

If anyone wants to straight up trade a newish stock 92c for my garishly painted px4 w/ target sights and trigger, however, I will never mention it again.

(PT 92 is never getting sold as it has family history and it has depreciated in value anyway. According to an online calculator, $299.00 in 1988 =$651.56 in 2020 dollars. A new 9mm from one of the big boys hovered around 1k in today's dollars. Glock really changed the market. )

A ship is safe in port, but that’s not what it’s made for.

[HCM]

Then I started reading and learning.
Take a look at the pistols being puked out of their new Tennessee plant.
Then look at the Inox finish look alike on their alloy receivers.
But hey, you probably believe what you have been sold.....and that is strictly the reputation of pistols long gone.
Haters will hate...I can dig it.

I'm NOT a cheap ass who can not afford to buy a Beretta. I have several.
My decision to buy a Taurus PT92 was an informed decision.

Beretta has had some teething issues with guns out of the TN plant. Myself and others here have posted about some of those issues experienced first hand as well as a problematic Italian 92a1 I purchased as a Christmas gift for my son.

That said, I don’t give a crap about what the finish looks like if the gun shoots reliably and accurately. I buy guns to shoot, not to fondle with white gloves.

[AJD21]

I got two TN made Beretta 92’s and they were put together quite nicely. I’ve probably owned close to a dozen 92 series guns. Honestly Beretta has always made there guns in such a way that poor machining, poor finishing and blemishes right out of the box are a way of life, not always but it’s pretty common in my experience but they have always seemed to maintain there functionality and quality where it counts.

[LockedBreech]

Then I started reading and learning.
Take a look at the pistols being puked out of their new Tennessee plant.
Then look at the Inox finish look alike on their alloy receivers.
But hey, you probably believe what you have been sold.....and that is strictly the reputation of pistols long gone.
Haters will hate...I can dig it.

I'm NOT a cheap ass who can not afford to buy a Beretta. I have several.
My decision to buy a Taurus PT92 was an informed decision.

Your point about teething issues in the TN plant is accurate, though the TN Bobcat I briefly owned was very well done and Beretta seems to be improving the early QC issues there. The teething issues have been unfortunate, but not unexpected opening a brand new assembly line.

Your point about "that is strictly the reputation of pistols long gone" is patently false. I own a 2008 PX4, 2013 92FS, 2017 92A1, and 2018 APX. I also owned a 2017 PX4 Compact and a 2015 92FS Compact no-rail.

Every single one of those guns was outstanding in fit, finish, and performance. My overall round count on Berettas is approximately 40,000, rather small considering all the ones I've owned. About 25,000 of that is on the PX4 and 2013 92FS alone. I can recall 4 specific stoppages, total, across all of the above-listed guns. Let's assume I'm forgetting a few and quadruple that number. 16 stoppages. That means I've had 99.99% reliability with my handful Berettas if my rough math is right. Not bad.

Todd Green and DocGKR have admonished us correctly, many times, that reliance on the manufacturer alone is not enough, you need to vet your own gun. They're right, but I'd put Beretta equal at the top of the stack with Glock and HK with guns I'd bet a significant sum of money on functioning right out of the box.

I'm glad you like your Taurus, I believe you that it's great, but your statements about Beretta are inaccurate.

Edit: In the interest of full disclosure and fanboy self-callout, I do also own a pair of Cougars, one in 9mm, one in .40. While I have not run them much at all, I am not confident they would post similar numbers to the above, given that the design is well known to be faulty. I also own a late 1970s Model 85BB Cheetah without enough rounds through to have formed an opinion.

[HCM]

I got two TN made Beretta 92’s and they were put together quite nicely. I’ve probably owned close to a dozen 92 series guns. Honestly Beretta has always made there guns in such a way that poor machining, poor finishing and blemishes right out of the box are a way of life, not always but it’s pretty common in my experience but they have always seemed to maintain there functionality and quality where it counts.

I have 3 TN made Berettas which I’m happy with. My only complaint being sharp edges.

The two with issues with TN guns were one I almost bought. Attempted to buy a TN made Wilson Brig Tac based on the display model. They wanted to sell me the other one NIB “from the back” which had an issue with the mag catch. You could insert a mag but mags would not lock in.

Second was an LTT 92 via commercial distribution channels. POI was far last of POA. 6”-8” off at 25. Front sight, which has a dovetail but is heavily staked in place but was visibly off center.

My Local shop had the LTT and it was an impulse purchase. My solution is to buy LTT guns from LTT.

[HCM]

Then I started reading and learning.
Take a look at the pistols being puked out of their new Tennessee plant.
Then look at the Inox finish look alike on their alloy receivers.
But hey, you probably believe what you have been sold.....and that is strictly the reputation of pistols long gone.
Haters will hate...I can dig it.

I'm NOT a cheap ass who can not afford to buy a Beretta. I have several.
My decision to buy a Taurus PT92 was an informed decision.

Brought this to mind.

““That’s why the philosophers warn us not to be satisfied with mere learning, but to add practice and then training. For as time passes we forget what we learned and end up doing the opposite, and hold opinions the opposite of what we should.” – Epictetus”

[Baldanders]

Well, crap or OK gun, if gunbroker is any indication, used PT92s got taken off the market in a big way by panic buying. There used to be pages, now less than 10 used as of yesterday. I guess the same might be true of a lot of "also ran" 9mm guns.

I was unaware of current Beretta QC issues. I have seen new M92s and one new Cheetah in the last year and they looked nice. (Of course at over $750, the Cheetah should look great, IMO. Not a great deal compared to the 92 or px4 series. ) Obviously, cosmetics aren't my first concern in a 9mm.

[Ingramite]

Brought this to mind.

““That’s why the philosophers warn us not to be satisfied with mere learning, but to add practice and then training. For as time passes we forget what we learned and end up doing the opposite, and hold opinions the opposite of what we should.” – Epictetus”

Another notable quote:

"Sacred cows make the best hamburger."

[HCM]

Another notable quote:

"Sacred cows make the best hamburger."

That phrase “sacred cow” I don’t think it means what you think it means. My posts about the aforementioned Beretta 92 issues, prior posts about the issues with the Beretta 96Ds I carried in the late 1990s (because I broke 3 of them) , and the issues I experienced with the PF darling, the PX4 Compact, are pretty far from a claim of “Beretta perfection.”

But those issues are minimal compared to the consistently problematic products I’ve seen out of Taurus over the past 30 years. The other part of the equation is customer service when there is a problem. IME Berreta also beats Taurus when there is an issue.

All of this excludes the military mess that is the M9 after years of failing to conduct required preventative maintenance and use of substandard third party parts (and magazines) when PM is performed.

IME there is an inverse relationship between satisfied Taurus customers and how much guns are actually shot.

Truth is most guns are either 1)never shot; 2) shot 50 rounds and never shot again; 3) shot once or twice a year. As such, Taurus decision to fix or replace the small percentage of guns that actually get shot vs investing in better intially QC across the board is smart from a financial perspective.

For a range toy, it’s fine just keep sending it in when it breaks. If you use guns as emergency tools, such failures can preclude you from having to worry about it (it or anything else) again. It’s all a matter of your frame of reference.

Tne most telling thing for me with regard to Taurus are the numerous issues with Taurus pistols and carbines issued the the Brazilian police. For many years Brazilian LE was required to “buy Brazilian” to support the domestic economy. There were so many failures and broken promises over so many years that Brazilian LE is now in the process of replacing all Taurus products with foreign made Glocks, SIGs etc.