My 3 tn 92s are good. So is my old md inox 92. What I believe is what I own and shoot. No more, no less. Ommv.
My 3 tn 92s are good. So is my old md inox 92. What I believe is what I own and shoot. No more, no less. Ommv.
Beretta has had some teething issues with guns out of the TN plant. Myself and others here have posted about some of those issues experienced first hand as well as a problematic Italian 92a1 I purchased as a Christmas gift for my son.
That said, I don’t give a crap about what the finish looks like if the gun shoots reliably and accurately. I buy guns to shoot, not to fondle with white gloves.
I got two TN made Beretta 92’s and they were put together quite nicely. I’ve probably owned close to a dozen 92 series guns. Honestly Beretta has always made there guns in such a way that poor machining, poor finishing and blemishes right out of the box are a way of life, not always but it’s pretty common in my experience but they have always seemed to maintain there functionality and quality where it counts.
Your point about teething issues in the TN plant is accurate, though the TN Bobcat I briefly owned was very well done and Beretta seems to be improving the early QC issues there. The teething issues have been unfortunate, but not unexpected opening a brand new assembly line.
Your point about "that is strictly the reputation of pistols long gone" is patently false. I own a 2008 PX4, 2013 92FS, 2017 92A1, and 2018 APX. I also owned a 2017 PX4 Compact and a 2015 92FS Compact no-rail.
Every single one of those guns was outstanding in fit, finish, and performance. My overall round count on Berettas is approximately 40,000, rather small considering all the ones I've owned. About 25,000 of that is on the PX4 and 2013 92FS alone. I can recall 4 specific stoppages, total, across all of the above-listed guns. Let's assume I'm forgetting a few and quadruple that number. 16 stoppages. That means I've had 99.99% reliability with my handful Berettas if my rough math is right. Not bad.
Todd Green and DocGKR have admonished us correctly, many times, that reliance on the manufacturer alone is not enough, you need to vet your own gun. They're right, but I'd put Beretta equal at the top of the stack with Glock and HK with guns I'd bet a significant sum of money on functioning right out of the box.
I'm glad you like your Taurus, I believe you that it's great, but your statements about Beretta are inaccurate.
Edit: In the interest of full disclosure and fanboy self-callout, I do also own a pair of Cougars, one in 9mm, one in .40. While I have not run them much at all, I am not confident they would post similar numbers to the above, given that the design is well known to be faulty. I also own a late 1970s Model 85BB Cheetah without enough rounds through to have formed an opinion.
State Government Attorney | Beretta, Glock, CZ & S&W Fan
I have 3 TN made Berettas which I’m happy with. My only complaint being sharp edges.
The two with issues with TN guns were one I almost bought. Attempted to buy a TN made Wilson Brig Tac based on the display model. They wanted to sell me the other one NIB “from the back” which had an issue with the mag catch. You could insert a mag but mags would not lock in.
Second was an LTT 92 via commercial distribution channels. POI was far last of POA. 6”-8” off at 25. Front sight, which has a dovetail but is heavily staked in place but was visibly off center.
My Local shop had the LTT and it was an impulse purchase. My solution is to buy LTT guns from LTT.
Brought this to mind.
““That’s why the philosophers warn us not to be satisfied with mere learning, but to add practice and then training. For as time passes we forget what we learned and end up doing the opposite, and hold opinions the opposite of what we should.” – Epictetus”
Well, crap or OK gun, if gunbroker is any indication, used PT92s got taken off the market in a big way by panic buying. There used to be pages, now less than 10 used as of yesterday. I guess the same might be true of a lot of "also ran" 9mm guns.
I was unaware of current Beretta QC issues. I have seen new M92s and one new Cheetah in the last year and they looked nice. (Of course at over $750, the Cheetah should look great, IMO. Not a great deal compared to the 92 or px4 series. ) Obviously, cosmetics aren't my first concern in a 9mm.
REPETITION CREATES BELIEF
REPETITION BUILDS THE SEPARATE WORLDS WE LIVE AND DIE IN
NO EXCEPTIONS
That phrase “sacred cow” I don’t think it means what you think it means. My posts about the aforementioned Beretta 92 issues, prior posts about the issues with the Beretta 96Ds I carried in the late 1990s (because I broke 3 of them) , and the issues I experienced with the PF darling, the PX4 Compact, are pretty far from a claim of “Beretta perfection.”
But those issues are minimal compared to the consistently problematic products I’ve seen out of Taurus over the past 30 years. The other part of the equation is customer service when there is a problem. IME Berreta also beats Taurus when there is an issue.
All of this excludes the military mess that is the M9 after years of failing to conduct required preventative maintenance and use of substandard third party parts (and magazines) when PM is performed.
IME there is an inverse relationship between satisfied Taurus customers and how much guns are actually shot.
Truth is most guns are either 1)never shot; 2) shot 50 rounds and never shot again; 3) shot once or twice a year. As such, Taurus decision to fix or replace the small percentage of guns that actually get shot vs investing in better intially QC across the board is smart from a financial perspective.
For a range toy, it’s fine just keep sending it in when it breaks. If you use guns as emergency tools, such failures can preclude you from having to worry about it (it or anything else) again. It’s all a matter of your frame of reference.
Tne most telling thing for me with regard to Taurus are the numerous issues with Taurus pistols and carbines issued the the Brazilian police. For many years Brazilian LE was required to “buy Brazilian” to support the domestic economy. There were so many failures and broken promises over so many years that Brazilian LE is now in the process of replacing all Taurus products with foreign made Glocks, SIGs etc.
Last edited by HCM; 05-17-2020 at 06:30 PM.