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Thread: Technique Questions from Dot Torture

  1. #11
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    Feb 2011
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    Dayton, OH
    I tend to drop shots from either not aiming "enough" like Les said OR I want to go see my shots on the paper and I drop the gun to see better before I have finished the shot and followed through. Plus on 9 you are transitioning to 10 "quickly" and so you may try and drop the gun fast to get a quick look at the target before you start the transition.

    Following through longer/more completely may help.

  2. #12
    Student
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Arizona
    Some uneducated guesses:

    Where your eyes are and how you do the trigger on dots 4 and 7 may be different than what you are doing on 2 and 9. On that note, dot 6 looks pretty good compared to your 2 and 9, so it might be different because you know you have to 'stay' for a second shot on it.

    You already know what it is like to overconfirm, so while avoiding picking that habit back up, try comparing what you see when you would finish the shot on dot 1, to what you see on dots 2 and 9. If it were me I would eliminate the trigger press altogether (though I might just touch it) so I could really focus on what things look like.

  3. #13
    Site Supporter Jay585's Avatar
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    Apr 2013
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    Southeast Idaho
    Quote Originally Posted by Les Pepperoni View Post
    Not aiming. Aim more.
    How do you aim more with a red dot sight? Focus harder on the portion of the target you want the dot on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guerrero View Post
    I'd be happy with that target.
    I am happy with it, just not ecstatic about it. There's also enough consistency to it to be able to use it to diagnose where I'm lagging.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yung View Post
    Some uneducated guesses:

    Where your eyes are and how you do the trigger on dots 4 and 7 may be different than what you are doing on 2 and 9. On that note, dot 6 looks pretty good compared to your 2 and 9, so it might be different because you know you have to 'stay' for a second shot on it.

    You already know what it is like to overconfirm, so while avoiding picking that habit back up, try comparing what you see when you would finish the shot on dot 1, to what you see on dots 2 and 9. If it were me I would eliminate the trigger press altogether (though I might just touch it) so I could really focus on what things look like.
    Thank you I will try that out next time and report back on how it went.
    "Well you know, it's a toolbox. You put the tools in for the job." Sam

  4. #14
    Member Sal Picante's Avatar
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    Nov 2011
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    SunCoast
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay585 View Post
    How do you aim more with a red dot sight? Focus harder on the portion of the target you want the dot on?
    There are always POA/POI variation at distances... Most times, at 3 yards, rounds impact lower, compared to the POA the dot/sight is telling you... Look at your target - there seems to be a bias to impact lower in the circles than higher.

    Favor higher in the circle? Look for the dot somewhere in the upper quarter of the circle?

  5. #15
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    Kansas
    Quote Originally Posted by Les Pepperoni View Post
    There are always POA/POI variation at distances... Most times, at 3 yards, rounds impact lower, compared to the POA the dot/sight is telling you... Look at your target - there seems to be a bias to impact lower in the circles than higher.

    Favor higher in the circle? Look for the dot somewhere in the upper quarter of the circle?
    I'm certainly no expert, but I'd go with this. I probably spend too much time on dot torture, and at 5 yards and under, I tend to get a lot of lower hits. They're still hits, just on the lower end of the dot.

  6. #16
    Site Supporter Jay585's Avatar
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    Apr 2013
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    Southeast Idaho
    Flinchy today. Shot cold at 4 yards.

    Also tried to rush everything. Not a good performance day, but still good times on the range.

    Also might've messed up on #5 "draw, 5 shots strong hand" as I drew from the holster every shot (like #2).

    "Well you know, it's a toolbox. You put the tools in for the job." Sam

  7. #17
    Member Sal Picante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay585 View Post
    Flinchy today. Shot cold at 4 yards.
    Good work ... Every hear about the Rogers staggered dummy drill? That helps identify flinch and sometimes fix it.
    (I wish I had more time for search-fu, but I'm in a rush today...)

  8. #18
    Tactical Nobody Guerrero's Avatar
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    Jun 2017
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    Milwaukee
    Question for the Dot Torture folks: the range where I go won't let me draw from the holster any more (owner was very gracious about it; said I obviously knew what I was doing and displayed a lot of skill in drawing from appendix, but he didn't want other customers seeing me and trying it). So, on the "draw" dots, could I just come up from low ready to get a similar effect?
    "The victor is not victorious if the vanquished does not consider himself so."
    ― Ennius

  9. #19
    Site Supporter Jay585's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Les Pepperoni View Post
    Good work ... Every hear about the Rogers staggered dummy drill? That helps identify flinch and sometimes fix it.
    (I wish I had more time for search-fu, but I'm in a rush today...)
    This the one? http://pistol-training.com/drills/ball-dummy-drill

    I'll try it out.

    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by Guerrero View Post
    Question for the Dot Torture folks: the range where I go won't let me draw from the holster any more (owner was very gracious about it; said I obviously knew what I was doing and displayed a lot of skill in drawing from appendix, but he didn't want other customers seeing me and trying it). So, on the "draw" dots, could I just come up from low ready to get a similar effect?
    Could try picking up the pistol off the bench/table/platform. Not 100% the same, but the movement pathway would be close.
    "Well you know, it's a toolbox. You put the tools in for the job." Sam

  10. #20
    A bit of background to establish “bono fides”(if there is such a thing as regards drill/eval history and execution):
    1) I knew David Blinder back in the ‘90s/early 2000s when he had a traveling training business. He was thoughtful and worked hard at giving his students a good value. He was also not obsessed with one way to do things, but encouraged flexibility.
    2) I had a class with the late TLG years back, where he used the “DT” as an exercise. As a line, the class shot each drill. When you dropped one completely out of a dot, you stood down. If you got through one iteration at a distance, you backed up 1 yard and did it again. I recall some of us went to around 6 yards or so.
    3) I shoot the DT regularly; when I get a new pistol/sight combo to see how things shake out, and just as a general 50
    round structured exercise, usually @3 yards. Recently, I’ve been running a G44 just because it’s fun and inexpensive.

    IMHO, start @3 yards and GET THE HITS-it’s a discipline thing. Don’t worry about if shots are a little low in the circle, or to one side, whatever, the exercise is about putting hits on the circles with various techniques. Two handed, one handed, speed loading, etc. There is some analysis that can occur, as in determining offset, but I suggest one could do better by shooting at a 1 inch square at 2, 3 yards and so on. If you shoot a shot off the circle, stop and ask why.
    If one cannot draw, just start from a ready or step in the draw sequence-no big deal. I seem to recall Blinder saying he put the draws into n just to practice that task.
    Use it, enjoy it(?) and learn from the exercise. If you clean it at 3 a few times, put it out a yard further or put a par time on-JMO.

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