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Thread: FBI Revolver Service Ammunition

  1. #1

    FBI Revolver Service Ammunition

    Folks:
    I have a fire going in the wood stove on a rainy Montana afternoon and I figured I'd do a post about Bureau revolver service ammunition since there is some interest in FBI revolvers. I was not sure if I should post this in the Revolver Forum or the Ammunition Forum. The subject is pretty closely related to revolvers, so the Revolver Forum got the nod. If this post needs to be moved, please do so. What follows is an adaptation of an article I am preparing for the blog portion of my website.

    This post will cover the Service ammunition that I carried as an agent in my S&W J frame revolver. First, a bit of nomenclature. In the FBI, ammunition that is carried by Special Agents in performance of their duties is typically referred to as “Service” ammunition. Ammunition used for training purposes is called “Training” ammunition. One caveat: As the late Pat Rogers pointed out, history did not begin today. My observations about Bureau revolver service ammunition begin in the mid-1990s and continue until 31-December-2004 when the FBI rescinded authorization allowing agents to carry revolvers in performance of their duties. There were other types of revolver ammunition carried by agents long before I joined the FBI. I have not observed examples of it though.

    The first 38 Special Service ammunition I saw (and carried) was what was generically called the “FBI Load”. This same load was sometimes called the “Chicago Load” as well. The load consisted of an all lead semiwadcutter hollow point driven a +P velocities. This load was carried for years by revolver armed agents.
    I have seen three different manufacturers of this load that the Bureau used: Winchester (pictured), Federal and Remington. The Winchester factory designation for this load was: “X38SPD”.

    The second type of 38 Special Service ammunition was the Winchester 38 Special 147 grain jacketed hollow point loaded to +P+ pressures and bears the Winchester designation: “Q4296”. This ammunition was used concurrently with the Federal version that is described next. I carried this ammunition when I was stationed in the Boston Field Office. I have only observed it when I was stationed in Boston. As an aside, each FBI Field Office has a Principle Firearms Instructor who oversees the firearms program for his/her particular field office. This included ammunition procurement.

    The next type of 38 Special Service ammunition was the Federal 147 grain Hydrashok bullet loaded to +P+ pressures. This Federal load carried the factory designation: “X38HS2G”. I carried this ammunition whenever I could obtain it. I felt that it was somehow better than the Winchester version, but I have no quantifiable data to that effect. This was the version of Service ammunition that I saw issued at the Academy. In fact, this was the last type of Service ammunition I loaded and carried in my S&W J frame revolver. Both the Federal version and Winchester version were accurate. I recall the point of impact of both types of ammunition coinciding with the point of aim at 25 yards. From my perspective, both the Winchester and Federal versions were an improvement over the lead hollow point load because they produced less fouling and made clean up after a range session much easier. Likewise, I carried two Bianchi Speed Strips filled with Service ammunition in my trouser pocket. The jacketed loads held up much better in that environment and exhibited less bullet deformation. The jacketed loads were also easier to reload under time constraints.

    The last type of Service ammunition is the Winchester 357 Magnum 145 grain Silver Tip hollow point. The Winchester factory designation was: “X357SHP”. This load was available for use in 357 Magnum chambered revolvers. I never carried an issued or assigned 357 Magnum revolver, so I never had a chance to carry this round. I have fired it and it is a full power round. My understanding of Bureau policy was that an agent could carry this ammunition if he had obtained his supervisor’s approval. By the time I became an agent, the days of full size revolvers being the primary arm of agents was waning. In fact, I only ever saw one agent carrying a revolver as his primary gun. Fun Fact: That agent carried a S&W Model 19 and the holster was a Milt Sparks 200 AW.

    One last piece of Bureau trivia: Each Bureau owned vehicle, during revolver days, had to have a spare box of 38 Special Service ammunition carried in the glove box of said vehicle and inscribed with the date when placed in the vehicle. I became aware of this during my second inspection. My supervisor told me to insure that I had a box of 38 Special ammo with the date inscribed on it and placed in the glove box of my issued Bureau vehicle (“Bucar”) Name:  WW X38SPD and round.jpg
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Size:  42.3 KBName:  WW Q4296 and round.jpg
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Size:  38.9 KBName:  Federal P38HS2G and round.jpg
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Size:  44.4 KBName:  WW X357SHP and round.jpg
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Size:  39.1 KB. Hopefully, this sheds a bit of light on a minor portion of FBI firearms and ammunition history.
    Bruce Cartwright
    Owner & chief instructor-SAC Tactical
    E-mail: "info@saconsco.com"
    Website: "https://saconsco.com"

  2. #2
    Neat post! As someone waiting for a 4" Highway Patrolman to arrive, anybody know of a vendor with the 147 grain .357 Silvertips in stock? Or is it discontinued?

  3. #3

    Great read

    Really enjoying your threads concerning the Bureau. My father was a late in life agent (1972-93). He was the oldest in his class, just barely making it in a few days short of turning 35. He was issued the four inch, model 10, “skinny” barrel, with a Packmayer grip adaptor issued on the revolver. Later in the mid 80’s, he acquired a 2 and half inch model 19 that he got approved for carry. I distinctly remember that he showed me a box of Federal 38G, 158 lead hollow points that he was issued. By that time, I was already into my own LE career, and he often gave me his allotment of .38 wadcutters to shoot.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter LtDave's Avatar
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    In ‘86 the issue .38 ammo was the Winchester 158 grain SWCLHP load. The issued .357 ammo was the 145 Winchester Silvertip. Policy at the time was that you had to have SAC approval to carry magnum ammo in your revolver, but you could carry magnum ammo as a reload, which is what I did. All bucars had the box of spare .38 service ammo. The only folks with any long guns were the office SWAT team.
    The first indication a bad guy should have that I'm dangerous is when his
    disembodied soul is looking down at his own corpse wondering what happened.

  5. #5
    Site Supporter LtDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCCY Marshal View Post
    Neat post! As someone waiting for a 4" Highway Patrolman to arrive, anybody know of a vendor with the 147 grain .357 Silvertips in stock? Or is it discontinued?
    I got some from Palmetto State Armory in November 2018.
    The first indication a bad guy should have that I'm dangerous is when his
    disembodied soul is looking down at his own corpse wondering what happened.

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  7. #7
    When I started at the PD, our cruisers all had a box of 38 Special service ammo in the glove box. I always assumed that the idea came from the FBI.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by LtDave View Post
    In ‘86 the issue .38 ammo was the Winchester 158 grain SWCLHP load. The issued .357 ammo was the 145 Winchester Silvertip. Policy at the time was that you had to have SAC approval to carry magnum ammo in your revolver, but you could carry magnum ammo as a reload, which is what I did. All bucars had the box of spare .38 service ammo. The only folks with any long guns were the office SWAT team.
    LtDave:
    Thank you for the update.
    Bruce
    Bruce Cartwright
    Owner & chief instructor-SAC Tactical
    E-mail: "info@saconsco.com"
    Website: "https://saconsco.com"

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinmove_ View Post
    Hasn't it always been 145 grain in the 357 Silvertips?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCCY Marshal View Post
    Neat post! As someone waiting for a 4" Highway Patrolman to arrive, anybody know of a vendor with the 147 grain .357 Silvertips in stock? Or is it discontinued?
    Quote Originally Posted by spinmove_ View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by medic15al View Post
    Hasn't it always been 145 grain in the 357 Silvertips?
    357 magnum silvertips are and have been 145 grain.

    I've never seen the Winchester 147 grain +P+ 38 load but Federal was still making the Hydra shok version as of 2011 or 2012. Whe my agency's contract with Speer temporarily lapsed we bought a bunch or Winchester Ranger bonded 9mm 147 grain JHP 9mm and a bunch of the Federal 147 grain +P+ Hydro shok 38 special off the DOJ contract.

    The +P+ is unpleasant to shot from light J frames but is a great load in a K frame. It shoots POA/POI in my 4' Model 10.

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