FBI Revolver Service Ammunition

[Crazy Dane]

That’s pretty good.

I hear they’re no longer loaded in nickel-plated cases.

I wish to heck Remington would bring back the 158-grain SJHP.

They have! I got my 5 box limit, 20 rd. boxes, at my local Sportsmans Warehouse a few weeks ago. Went back the next day and they were sold out. I have seen it offered at a few online stores too.

[Bruce Cartwright]

I'm glad to see this thread is still around, thanks Bruce Cartwright for the original post... very valuable.

Monti:

I am glad you found the thread to be of value. I have done several threads like this because a lot of this information is disappearing due to the passage of time. Its hard to believe but the last time an agent carried a revolver was December 31, 2004. That's nearly 18 years ago.

I wonder where the “Chicago Load” came from? I thought the 158 LSWCHP originated with St. Louis PD.

Weren’t the +P+ rounds an LE-only offering?

I carry the Remington R38S12 as my reload, after Federal GMM WCs, which are kind of tricky for speed reloads.

There may be better rounds, but I can buy enough of the Remingtons to actually practice and test guns with them occasionally vs others that cost over $1 per round (pre-panic price, no idea what they go for now.)

jtcarm:

I believe that "Chicago Load", "FBI Load", "St. Louis Load" and possibly the term "Metro Load" all came into being about the same time in the early seventies. I recall reading something along those lines written by Massad Ayoob.

The +P+ loads were typically sold only to law enforcement. I suspect some of it has filtered out into general circulation due to the passage of time. As I understand it, the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute ("SAMMI") never did set a +P+ pressure limit for the 38 Special cartridge. As a result, most manufacturers would only sell +P+ ammo to government and law enforcement entities that signed a waiver of liability. Bullet design has evolved significantly since the +P+ ammo was developed. I suspect that loads like the Speer Gold Dot 135 grain +P load and the Winchester Ranger version probably perform significantly better that the original +P+ loads. Hope that clarifies things.

Bruce

[Wayne Dobbs]

I wonder where the “Chicago Load” came from? I thought the 158 LSWCHP originated with St. Louis PD.

The 158 LSWC-HP +P was carried so many places that it got named all kinds of things: Chicago load, St. Louis load, Metro load (then Metro Dade, now Miami Dade), etc. It was a favorite in Dallas (one of the first adopters after St. Louis), Albuquerque, FBI and on and on. It was a nice improvement in .38 duty ammo, especially from a 3" or longer barrel.

[JAH 3rd]

Hasn't it always been 145 grain in the 357 Silvertips?

I've got a box of Winchester Silvertips in .357 purchased in the 1980's. It is 145 grain bullet.

[JonInWA]

Neat post! As someone waiting for a 4" Highway Patrolman to arrive, anybody know of a vendor with the 147 grain .357 Silvertips in stock? Or is it discontinued?

I was really unimpressed withj how current production .357 Silvertips ran; I had far too many light strikes with it with my Ruger GP100, with a full strength factory mainspring. I've switched to Federal 158 gr HydraShoks, which have performed impeccibly. Given their historic cred and vetting, I really wanted the Silvertips to work; they didn't acceptably. I shipped my remaining box to Winchester for examination; they said it was within spec, and refunded me.

Best, Jon

[42Willys]

@Bruce Cartwright thanks for this thread, great info for revolver fans.

[Outpost75]

I was really unimpressed withj how current production .357 Silvertips ran; I had far too many light strikes with it with my Ruger GP100, with a full strength factory mainspring. I've switched to Federal 158 gr HydraShoks, which have performed impeccibly. Given their historic cred and vetting, I really wanted the Silvertips to work; they didn't acceptably. I shipped my remaining box to Winchester for examination; they said it was within spec, and refunded me.

Best, Jon

Back in the day when wheelguns were still the primary duty guns, the manufacturers paid more attention to striker indent centrality, driven protrusion and strength of firing pin indent. Many revolvers on today's commercial market would not pass muster using the inspection standards developed for the US Army during WW2 and subsequently used at FLETC and the FBI/DEA Quantico gun vault.

Firing pin indent cannot be off center more than half the diameter of the striker point.

Driven protrusion on .38 Special, .357 and 9mm should be 0.028-0.032"

Striker indent for .38 Special should be not less than 0.010" on annealed size "C" .225x.400 copper cylinder when used with the government gage holder, struck in DA with barrel horizontal. For .357 and 9mm indent must be 0.012", for M4 carbine 0.018"

Lacking the coppers and government gages test fire 100 rounds of your carry ammo. Good to go if no drips, runs or errors. If ONE misfire, repeat the sample. In 200 rounds accept on 1 misfire, reject/repair on 2 or more.

Old school Colts, Rugers and contract S&Ws had no trouble meeting this. Concealed hammer J-frames with coil spring lockwork, other than the 9mm M940 may have issues. My Ruger SP101 and 1964 Colt OP set off
Small rifle primers 100%.

[JonInWA]

I had way more than 2 non-ignitions with the contemporaty 145 gr .357 Silvertips. I offered them the opportunity to send me a larger quantity to test, and haven't heard back. I'm simplhy disinclined to throw more of my discretionary spending funds on something of questionable performance-particularly when there's another option (Federal HydraShok). I'm not holding my breath, but this reminds me that I at least owe the project manager the courtesy follow-up call (since he hasn't extended the courtesy of following up with me...).

Meanwhile, as mentioned, it's a Federal HydraShok kinda day.

Best, Jon

[Outpost75]

Excessive head clearance and end shake over 0.002" reduces striker indent also. On a new revolver it is worthwhile to thoroughly clean interior of frame, lightly deburr and flat stone hammer and lightly dry lubricate to reduce friction. QUICK AND EASY action job on a Ruger is to clamp in milling machine vise and turn eccentric cam to actuate trigger at 120 rpm for 10,000 cycles recorded with a counter on your Bridgeport. Mike Moore used this method for armorer's school demo for those who worried if dry firing was harmful.

[Bruce Cartwright]

@Bruce Cartwright thanks for this thread, great info for revolver fans.

Willys42:
Glad you like the thread. I have done several others on other FBI weapons, such as the MP5/10 and M16 family of weapons. As I mentioned in another thread, I wanted to document some of this information before it is lost to the ages. I also did a series of threads called the Wheelgun Challenge in 5 or 6 parts about my experience carrying a full size revolver (Ruger Match Champion) for an extended period of time.
Bruce