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Thread: Wilson Combat Hackathorn Special Commander

  1. #1
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    Wilson Combat Hackathorn Special Commander

    I have a Hackathorn Commander that would not reliable feed WW white box or Amscor 230 gr. Ball not my duty ammo consisting of 230 gr Federal HST or WW Ranger T. I use Wilson 47D and ETM mags. I also noted this steel frame Commander has more felt recoil than it twin aluminum frame Commander,

    The pistol was returned to Wilson Combat, repaired and returned. The pistol will run the ball ammo 100%. Wilson also provide me two ETM HD mags to try with my duty loads. The explanation: I needed more spring tension to push the last round in to position to be fed due to the increase slide speed with the hotter duty ammo. Makes sense.

    However, the feed issue, while better, continued. The last round in every other mag would get pinched with the bullet straight up in the ejection port. Again, I have sent the pistol back to Wilson repair. Plus, some cosmetic things were missed during the last repair that needed to be addressed.

    The pistol was returned. I took both of my Hackathorn Commanders (steel and aluminum frame) to the range Sunday for a comparison as well as function check of the steel frame

    Aluminum frame – 56 rds. 230gr HST. No malfunction. Recoil easily controllable, front sight returns to combat sight picture quickly.

    Steel frame – 64 rds. 230gr HST plus 32 rds. 230grs. Ranger T. One malfunction. The last round of 64 HST got pinched in the feed track. (pic is from earlier session but representative as latest malfunction) Recoil more pronounced. Longer time to reacquire a combat sight picture for follow up shot.

    I am told the hammer spring is 23 lbs. and the recoil spring is 20 lbs. The recoil spring is quite stout when racking the slide. The barrel has a slight “click” when going into or out of battery. I’m going to try different spring combinations such as an 18 lb. recoil spring and/or a 19 lb. hammer spring. I’m not bashing Wilson Combat as I have a number of their 1911 pistols. Been using them since 1993. The pistol just needs to find it’s happy place.

    Any suggestions or ideas are welcome. I bought a steel frame for use as a range gun with less recoil and to prolong the life of my aluminum pistol. Not going as planned so far.

    See https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=1010540 for more details.

    JW
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  2. #2
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    have you narrowed your mags down?

    meaning... maybe one mag might be the culprit.

    number your mags and when it happens again... record that mag.

    when it happens again.... record that mag again.


    I personally would not go to a lighter recoil spring especially with duty ammo.

    Maybe HST bullet design might be the issue but 1 out of 64 and on the last mag....

    I am swaying toward a mag issue.
    If you're going to be a bear….be a GRIZZLY!

  3. #3
    my WAG is the slide is hitting it's rearward limit so hard, it's bouncing the top round out of the mag. The mention that the recoil is heavier than it's LW twin is telling. Try to tame the recoil speed, via recoil spring, mainspring, and firing pin stop.

    Personally, I've gone to 185gr ammo in guns shorter than 5". There's less mass in the ammo column for the mag spring to manage, and with the faster cycle times of commanders, giving the mag the best chance at getting the next round properly positioned before the slide comes forward is a good thing. and it doesn't hammer the slide too hard.

    I assume that you know how to isolate mags, and do the normal stuff, if you've been a wilson user since the 90's.

    good luck. keep us posted please

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by SW CQB 45 View Post
    have you narrowed your mags down?

    meaning... maybe one mag might be the culprit.

    number your mags and when it happens again... record that mag.

    when it happens again.... record that mag again.


    I personally would not go to a lighter recoil spring especially with duty ammo.

    Maybe HST bullet design might be the issue but 1 out of 64 and on the last mag....

    I am swaying toward a mag issue.
    We did to at first, However, all mags are numbered. It will happen with any mag including the two new ETM HD's. The pistol was returned with only the cosmetic work done. It has gone from 1 malfunction for every 16 rounds of HST to 1 malfunction in 64 rounds. I'm running out of practice HST having burned thru 300 hundred or so doing different test.

    BTW the ETM HD's springs are stout!

    JW

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by theJanitor View Post
    my WAG is the slide is hitting it's rearward limit so hard, it's bouncing the top round out of the mag. The mention that the recoil is heavier than it's LW twin is telling. Try to tame the recoil speed, via recoil spring, mainspring, and firing pin stop.

    Personally, I've gone to 185gr ammo in guns shorter than 5". There's less mass in the ammo column for the mag spring to manage, and with the faster cycle times of commanders, giving the mag the best chance at getting the next round properly positioned before the slide comes forward is a good thing. and it doesn't hammer the slide too hard.

    I assume that you know how to isolate mags, and do the normal stuff, if you've been a wilson user since the 90's.

    good luck. keep us posted please
    I'm thinking the pronounced recoil is the key. Why is this steel frame pistol operating out of the norm. Barrel fit and the proper combination of springs (hammer / recoil) and perhaps the FPS are what I'm trying to work with. The pics are a comparison of the aluminum and steel frame slide upper lug area. Top pic is the steel frame with the wear pattern on the high spot between the ejection port and the 1st lug groove.

    I have a lightweight and steel 4" CQB Compact that eats the 230 gr HST's all day long as well as the Hack Commander light weight. All recoil less than this pistol. I shot a buddy's Colt Commander and another guys Springfield Commander occasionally. Their recoil is as expected, quite controllable. I've had a fellow RO stand off to the side to observe slide speed, etc. Nothing obvious. He has fired it for a number of rounds comparing it the light weight twin. He's amazed at the recoil difference.

    The 230 gr HST / Ranger T are my duty ammo so I have to make it work with these rounds.

    I do indeed keep track of my mags. I have 6 ETM's that are duty use only. 12 to 15 47D's and a like number of ETM's along with 4 ETM HD's. I put new spring kits in the 47D and regular ETM them about 20 months ago. These mags run fine in my two Govt as well as the two Compact models plus the twin aluminum frame Commander with the 230 gr HST. I've moved on from thinking it the magazines.

    Several gunsmith at Wilson Combat looked the pistol over and said everything is at it should be. They also agreed it does recoil more than it should but had no answers. Crap.

    Thanks guys. Someone has run into this issue before. That's why I posting this here. More SME available.

    JW
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  6. #6
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    If the factory is unable to assist, I would recommend shipping the gun off to a reputable 1911 shop abd askihg then to make the gun work reliably.

    I have a Colt 5”, that when purchased used back in ‘16, gave me frequent jams similar to yours. The cartridge would be about 15 or so degrees closer to parallel to the bore than in your picture. The nose would be jammed up hard onto the barrel hood.

    I took mine to Briley (I lived in Houston, it was easy) and they took are of me, I think I got the gun back about 2 weeks later.
    Per the PF Code of Conduct, I have a commercial interest in the StreakTM product as sold by Ammo, Inc.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergeron View Post
    If the factory is unable to assist, I would recommend shipping the gun off to a reputable 1911 shop abd askihg then to make the gun work reliably.

    I have a Colt 5”, that when purchased used back in ‘16, gave me frequent jams similar to yours. The cartridge would be about 15 or so degrees closer to parallel to the bore than in your picture. The nose would be jammed up hard onto the barrel hood.

    I took mine to Briley (I lived in Houston, it was easy) and they took are of me, I think I got the gun back about 2 weeks later.
    Well in all the years I have dealt with Wilson Combat, I've never been let down. However, it's not looking good.

    JW

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pit View Post
    I'm thinking the pronounced recoil is the key.
    Several gunsmith at Wilson Combat looked the pistol over and said everything is at it should be. They also agreed it does recoil more than it should but had no answers. Crap.

    JW
    Spit balling here:

    Has anyone looked in the barrel? Has the barrel been reamed properly? Dimensionally correct? Is there any chance that the higher perceived recoil could be caused by increased case pressure due to barrel, chamber, lead dimensions?

  9. #9
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    If Wilson can’t make it right they should replace it. I have heard of tolerance stacking but never for a Wilson. Obviously something is out of spec. Could you swap slides between commanders?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Pit View Post
    I have a lightweight and steel 4" CQB Compact that eats the 230 gr HST's all day long as well as the Hack Commander light weight.
    IMO, this has nothing to do with the bullet shape. 10 bucks says the bullet in that pic, never came close to the feedramp, nor did the breechface touch the rear of the case.

    do all of the malfunctions look like that?

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