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Thread: LEOSA: FLEOA & NJ FOP Take on NJ

  1. #31
    Site Supporter hufnagel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLebowski View Post
    This is just petty and spiteful at this point.
    It's the Jersey Way. Ask my petulant neighbor.
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  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky Racoon View Post
    You are saying CBP only allows you to fly with your issued weapon, but when you drive to NJ you will carry a personally owned (non-duty) weapon?

    Presuming CBP allows off duty carry of said duty weapon, I’d strongly suggest carrying your duty weapon and not relying on LEOSA, especially in a state like NJ. Your authority as a Fed dwarfs the authorities/protections in LEOSA. Don’t give your agency a reason not to scope you in the event you are involved in a shooting. And don’t count on a Swiss cheese law like LEOSA to save you.
    Thank you for your recommendation, but CBP badge/credentials cover me with a personal weapon off duty (memo pertaining to it is actually included in our UOF handbook). If I used the personal gun in a shooting, CBP isn’t going to protect me from my gun being taken as evidence by whatever agency involved (if it happened, so be it). CBP pistol... we don’t hand it over to anyone other than CBP.

    The specific post referenced CBP policy of only allowing flying armed with a CBP issued weapon... and not a personal one. If I wanted, I could just stow my personal gun in my checked luggage... but I usually don’t check luggage, and I really don’t like the idea of a gun in there. Plus, if I carry... no TSA screening. That’s big being I’m a Type I diabetic on an insulin pump, and that two week TSA course doesn’t instill a mindset that certain electronics CANNOT go through a body scanner no matter how many times you tell them/ask for pat down instead.

    I personally do not carry my issued Glock outside of work (unless flying), and likely won’t until I’m allowed to have a mounted light on duty (port specific issue, and I’m not yanking a light on/off before/after my shift... I carry with a weapon mounted light off duty exclusively).

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Screwball View Post
    Thank you for your recommendation, but CBP badge/credentials cover me with a personal weapon off duty (memo pertaining to it is actually included in our UOF handbook). If I used the personal gun in a shooting, CBP isn’t going to protect me from my gun being taken as evidence by whatever agency involved (if it happened, so be it). CBP pistol... we don’t hand it over to anyone other than CBP.

    The specific post referenced CBP policy of only allowing flying armed with a CBP issued weapon... and not a personal one. If I wanted, I could just stow my personal gun in my checked luggage... but I usually don’t check luggage, and I really don’t like the idea of a gun in there. Plus, if I carry... no TSA screening. That’s big being I’m a Type I diabetic on an insulin pump, and that two week TSA course doesn’t instill a mindset that certain electronics CANNOT go through a body scanner no matter how many times you tell them/ask for pat down instead.

    I personally do not carry my issued Glock outside of work (unless flying), and likely won’t until I’m allowed to have a mounted light on duty (port specific issue, and I’m not yanking a light on/off before/after my shift... I carry with a weapon mounted light off duty exclusively).
    Ah. Good copy. I understand now.

    My agency doesn’t have the type of memo yours has. If I were to be in a shooting off duty, the fact that it was or wasn’t my duty pistol could figure into whether I’m scoped or not.

  4. #34
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    UPDATE: FLEOA and the NJ FOP Lawsuit Against State of New Jersey Over Preemption of LEOSA

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

    April 29, 2021

    WASHINGTON, DC – Today, the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association (FLEOA) and the New Jersey State Lodge of the Fraternal Order of Police (NJ FOP), provided the following update regarding FLEOA’s and NJ FOP’s ongoing lawsuit against the State of New Jersey regarding their preemption of federal LEOSA law:

    FLEOA and the NJ FOP have been involved in a lawsuit against the State of New Jersey for their failure to comply with the federal standards set in the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) in title 18 U.S.C. 926C.

    As a result of this lawsuit, NJ has attempted to ameliorate our legal concerns about the NJ statue that conflicts with the federal LEOSA statute and has now changed the FAQ’s on their website.

    These FAQ changes (https://www.njsp.org/firearms/pdf/LE...Q_20210422.pdf) in and of themselves do not change NJ’s law, which requires all retired officers to obtain an NJ RPO permit, and allows for administrative discretion to change the enforcement policy at any time concerning LEOSA’s right to carry in the state.

    Absent recognition and acceptance of the right to carry in LEOSA and federal preemption of the state statute’s conflicting qualification requirements, NJ can still adjust its enforcement policy at will, and subject retired and former law enforcement officers, who are otherwise LEOSA qualified, to criminal charges if they fail to comply with the NJ statue.

    It has been and remains the position of FLEOA and the NJ FOP that New Jersey must fully recognize the LEOSA right to carry and accept the federal preemption of New Jersey’s contrary requirements.
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  5. #35
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    If you guys read the new AG's FAQ listed on the NJSP website, the AG has budged on everyone except those who retired from NJ LE agencies that reside in NJ.

    For example, as an out of state officer (active or retired) can you carry hollowpoints in NJ? Per this clarification from AG, yes you can, unless you retired from a NJ LE agency and live in NJ in which case you fall under NJ's statutes for governing carry by retired NJ LEOs. So, if you're a fed or out-of-state officer you can carry hollowpoints in NJ regardless of whether you're active or retired, and regardless of whether you reside in NJ or not.

    Ditto with carrying. The AG now recognizes that LEOSA provides an alternate path to carrying a firearm, but not for retired NJ LEOs living in NJ.

    The problem is that even with the AGs clarification, he's still contradicting LEOSA by trying to hold on to authority over NJ LEOs like a petty tyrant. LEOSA supersedes state law. If you want to make it a requirement for your own LEOs to go through your own process, you have that authority under state law.....but once they satisfy the requirements of LEOSA (which the RPO permitting process does), then they fall under LEOSA as a QLEO and are afforded those privilege's...meaning under federal law they can carry hollowpoints, regardless of what you say.

    I'm glad to hear that the NJ FOP and FLEOA are still pushing and not giving up.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    If you guys read the new AG's FAQ listed on the NJSP website, the AG has budged on everyone except those who retired from NJ LE agencies that reside in NJ.

    For example, as an out of state officer (active or retired) can you carry hollowpoints in NJ? Per this clarification from AG, yes you can, unless you retired from a NJ LE agency and live in NJ in which case you fall under NJ's statutes for governing carry by retired NJ LEOs. So, if you're a fed or out-of-state officer you can carry hollowpoints in NJ regardless of whether you're active or retired, and regardless of whether you reside in NJ or not.

    Ditto with carrying. The AG now recognizes that LEOSA provides an alternate path to carrying a firearm, but not for retired NJ LEOs living in NJ.

    The problem is that even with the AGs clarification, he's still contradicting LEOSA by trying to hold on to authority over NJ LEOs like a petty tyrant. LEOSA supersedes state law. If you want to make it a requirement for your own LEOs to go through your own process, you have that authority under state law.....but once they satisfy the requirements of LEOSA (which the RPO permitting process does), then they fall under LEOSA as a QLEO and are afforded those privilege's...meaning under federal law they can carry hollowpoints, regardless of what you say.

    I'm glad to hear that the NJ FOP and FLEOA are still pushing and not giving up.
    Wow.
    #RESIST

  7. #37
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    There are states' rights. And there are states' wrongs. This is the latter. I hope this ends painfully for the NJ AG and his cohort.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by psalms144.1 View Post
    I applaud this move, and think it's long overdue to FIRMLY and FINALLY establish legal precedence in NJ's thick fucking skull that Federal Law trumps their silly little rules...
    When things like this get ignored, you end up with sanctuary cities and people doing whatever they want when ever they want.

    This shit has gotten entirely too far out of hand.


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  9. #39
    Dot Driver Kyle Reese's Avatar
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    Heading to NJ over Memorial Day weekend and will be carrying my APX A1 Carry with six-round mag, loaded with non JHP ammo. Will also have my retired creds, agency issued LEOSA card and latest copy of my semi auto handgun LEOSA qual.


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  10. #40
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Reese View Post
    Heading to NJ over Memorial Day weekend and will be carrying my APX A1 Carry with six-round mag, loaded with non JHP ammo. Will also have my retired creds, agency issued LEOSA card and latest copy of my semi auto handgun LEOSA qual.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

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