Assuming you have the grades, test scores, or ethnicity to qualify.Originally Posted by peterb
Assuming you have the grades, test scores, or ethnicity to qualify.
This is true. But attending an Ivy does not convey the total benefits of that institution. A real challenge for “first generation” students is that their parents typically do not have the networking knowledge and knowledge of upper crust etiquette to prepare their kids to take advantage of an Ivy.
Then we have the whole separate issue of Ivy-League grade inflation. It is very difficult, for instance, to flunk out of Brown, because they don’t give Fs. They give failing students “incompletes” that allow them more time to make the grade. Something that does not occur regularly at a state school.
This is all predicated on the idea that there is value in higher education, and in particular Ivy education, for the average person. I actually remain unconvinced of this, as someone who works in higher ed. In my experience those who are most successful in life post-college had a distinct plan going in. Those folks are typically older with more life experience, though some are those kids who knew from age 5 they wanted to do X.
Mostly grades and family income level. Many Ivies are adopting a “no test” or “low test” threshold since it has become clear SAT/ACT aren’t great indicators of long-term success. Ethnicity certainly plays a role, education level of parents is a big one. First generation, low income, minorities are like crack to Ivy admission officers.
True. Like any school, what you get out of it depends on what you put in. If you’re just going to show up and do the minimum there’s no real benefit. But if you’re prepared to take advantage of the opportunities, the resources at high-end schools can be amazing.
It’s complicated. I know nice, hardworking kids who were reluctant to say they went to an Ivy because they knew people would assume they were rich snobs.
And my BA is from University of South Alabama so about the same.
I applied to a job at the University of Southern Mississippi and another at Alabama A&M. Much to the abject horror of one of my colleagues, “You would move to Mississippi?”And my BA is from University of South Alabama so about the same.
“In a heartbeat.”
“Why? I see you at a place like Harvard.”
“You don’t know me very well then.”
—
I really wanted that job at Alabama A&M though - right there in Huntsville, just big enough, but small enough. Plenty of private industry for the wife, easy to find land and commute, minimal traffic. Would have been awesome.
Yeah man I think Huntsville has as many Ph.Ds per square mile as Los Alamos.
I have never seen evidence of a more intelligent student body at Ivy League schools compared to state university back during the period I attended in the early 70's. In fact, I was surprised at how poorly educated many of the Harvard students were when I went up there to visit a friend during that same period. (Though I always had a soft spot for Brown.)
They may have more resources and the old boy network, but for pure intellectual horsepower, I saw nothing to wow me.
That said, I know things have changed a great deal in the near half century since I started my freshman year in college, and even then it was beginning to be dumbed down by asses in seats that had no business being there for one reason or another.
But to get into a good State U. back then, you'd better have had excellent SATs and other things to point to on our app...unless you could check off a few boxes that gave you priority.
There's nothing civil about this war.
I had originally thought to outwit the system when I listed my (bi-racial) children as Asian on their social security forms.
It's funny, the SATs and the like were developed to break prejudicial decisions. Now they are seen as prejudicial when the real issue is the failure of K-12 education to make all kids competitive due to a variety of social circumstances.
Many schools started the 'entire' social package admissions evaluation to come up with criteria to turn back the waves of Asian and Jewish students that would take up a disproportionate slice of the new class. So Chad and Karen can go to Africa in the summer and work with the poor people there. The daughter of the Japanese restaurant owner in Portland, OR can't (friends of ours - she got in by hard work and scores - became the best freshperson of her MIT class).
For me, it was the SATs that got me into an excellent commuter school in NYC that took in very high scoring kids and gave me an inexpensive but quality education.
I've seen kids who were technically 'illegals' who were as smart as anybody and kids of the well to do who were as less gifted as any.
Money and connections wins the day, unless you are too stupid to do it well - like them movie picture stars, going to jail
I always got a kick out of folks who would parade their ivy credentials. Had a guy who wore his Harvard sweater around campus. Well, dumb ass - how come you are here, next to my SUNY Buffalo T-shirt (or even my Rangemaster t-shirt in the gym)?
The real failure is parenting and no amount of money and affirmative action thrown at schools will fix fatherless families.
#RESIST
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