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Thread: Selling or deregistering and SBR.

  1. #1

    Selling or deregistering and SBR.

    I think I am at the point where I would like to divest myself of an NFA item. I have never actually done this as normally I just give it to a family member on the trust but given the amount I've already passed out to family already I want to sell this one. I am looking for the best way to sell a Form 1 SBR. For those that have done so did you just deregister the item by sending a letter to the appropriate ATF branch, or did you sell to a local shop and do a transfer through them to a buyer? I am looking for the easiest way to accomplish this while not taking it in the 4th POC. Preliminary search shows that it could take up to three months to deregister. I am curious if that is accurate, or if there is anything I should be aware of in selling it to or through a local shop. Thanks for any help PF.

  2. #2
    Site Supporter CleverNickname's Avatar
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    If you want to make it title I again, then just return it to a title I configuration and presto, it's legally a title I firearm. Make sure the new configuration matches the original type of title I gun it was (e.g. don't take an SBR that was made from a rifle and return it to a "pistol" configuration, because it would still be an SBR).

    If you want to get if off of the ATF's NFRTR database, then that won't happen. You can write the ATF and tell them that a certain gun has been permanently modified to no longer be title II, but firstly, it's not required and secondly, all the ATF does is make a notation in the NFRTR that the gun is no longer in title II configuration. There's no specific form to use to do the notification, just send the NFA branch a letter. They'll reply to your letter when they get around to it, probably in a year or two.

    I wouldn't bother trying to sell it as an SBR, unless it's something really rare. No one's going to want to take months to get a used SBR'ed AR15 or 10/22 or something with some other guy's trust name on it, when they can take weeks for an eForm 1 approval on a new SBR.

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by CleverNickname View Post
    If you want to make it title I again, then just return it to a title I configuration and presto, it's legally a title I firearm. Make sure the new configuration matches the original type of title I gun it was (e.g. don't take an SBR that was made from a rifle and return it to a "pistol" configuration, because it would still be an SBR).

    If you want to get if off of the ATF's NFRTR database, then that won't happen. You can write the ATF and tell them that a certain gun has been permanently modified to no longer be title II, but firstly, it's not required and secondly, all the ATF does is make a notation in the NFRTR that the gun is no longer in title II configuration. There's no specific form to use to do the notification, just send the NFA branch a letter. They'll reply to your letter when they get around to it, probably in a year or two.

    I wouldn't bother trying to sell it as an SBR, unless it's something really rare. No one's going to want to take months to get a used SBR'ed AR15 or 10/22 or something with some other guy's trust name on it, when they can take weeks for an eForm 1 approval on a new SBR.
    I’m not saying that you’re wrong or anything but I’ve heard the exact opposite several times. First things first, I don’t have a lot of NFA experience myself, I’ve never held a Class III SOT license, and I don’t work for the ATF. My understanding is that any changes in configuration that make the gun a Title 1 firearm again are only temporary. If an ATF Agent asked to see your registered NFA item and you told them that you had returned it to a non NFA configuration and sold it as a Title 1 firearm, I don’t see that going over well. Same for the buyer if local LE came into contact with the firearm, saw the engravings done as part of the Form 1 and contacted ATF. ATF would tell them that this firearm was on their registry as an SBR/SBS/AOW. Now the buyer is in possession of it without a tax stamp.

    Please correct me if I’m wrong. I’m always happy to learn, especially since I’m starting to dabble in NFA firearms now.
    My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.

  5. #5
    Site Supporter CleverNickname's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    My understanding is that any changes in configuration that make the gun a Title 1 firearm again are only temporary.
    They're temporary if the owner intends them to be temporary. For example, it's OK for an SBR owner to temporarily attach a 16"+ barrel to a rifle (converting it to title I), and transport it across state lines without having an approved 5320.20. Then once he returns to the state where he originated, he may return the firearm to an SBR without resubmitting a new form 1. However, they're not temporary if the owner intends them to not be temporary.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    If an ATF Agent asked to see your registered NFA item and you told them that you had returned it to a non NFA configuration and sold it as a Title 1 firearm, I don’t see that going over well.
    What exactly do you think would happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    Same for the buyer if local LE came into contact with the firearm, saw the engravings done as part of the Form 1 and contacted ATF. ATF would tell them that this firearm was on their registry as an SBR/SBS/AOW. Now the buyer is in possession of it without a tax stamp.
    In your example, this would only be a problem if the new owner had changed the gun back into an NFA-regulated configuration. If this possibility concerns you, then a possible solution would be for the original owner to transfer the gun to the new owner through an FFL instead of through a private sale. The FFL will record it as being transferred as a title I rifle or title I handgun, not an SBR. Then if the new owner converts it back to an SBR configuration, the original owner has some proof that the new owner is the only one who broke the law. Or you know, just don't sell the gun in the first place. There's plenty of things that are legal but have some level of higher risk.

  6. #6
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    If it's an AR, you could just buy a new lower and move all the parts over. Then keep the registered lower in your safe just in case you want to do something with it in the future.

    And it doesn't appear to be an issue for you, but since nobody else has mentioned it, once you "make" the SBR the first time, you won't get the tax back.
    .
    -----------------------------------------
    Not another dime.

  7. #7
    Headache was avoided as I just sent it to an SOT in the buyers locale, (configured as a title I) and let them handle everything. I sent a letter to ATF letting them know that the configuration was permanently changed to a title I and was transferred to and SOT, (I of course sent it registered and kept a copy). With the world being what it is today I don't think that I will ever again sell or transfer a gun without going through an FFL.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CleverNickname
    What exactly do you think would happen?
    I don’t know what the requirements are to transfer an NFA item to someone else past the receiving party needing an approved Form 4 with stamp. I’d guess if the ATF found out someone transferred an NFA item without the receiver having an approved Form 4, there might be potential criminal charges but I’m just guessing here based on my limited NFA knowledge.
    My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.

  9. #9
    Site Supporter CleverNickname's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    I don’t know what the requirements are to transfer an NFA item to someone else past the receiving party needing an approved Form 4 with stamp. I’d guess if the ATF found out someone transferred an NFA item without the receiver having an approved Form 4, there might be potential criminal charges but I’m just guessing here based on my limited NFA knowledge.
    But no NFA-regulated firearm would have been transferred, a title I firearm would have been transferred. There's no crime.

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