What if: Unarmed assailant charges while you're holding a long gun

[TCB]

As far as an actual tactic I’ve employed both muzzle strikes and my personal favorite a hockey style cross check with my hands on the fore rail and receiver extension of an M-4 to people who didn’t want to get with the program. I’m not a small dude and the cross check has not yet failed to put someone down. This was in a On Duty setting and I had other lethal and non-lethal options available to me in case the subject attempted to take the rifle. I’ve also been in a number of fights with a slung rifle and it’s awkward to say the least (pro tip: a rubber bumper on your stock may be a good idea, I’ve had the rear edge of a standard M-4 stocks open up my face a couple times pretty bad while grappling).

[DDTSGM]

What if scenario sparked by the suboptimal citizens' arrest tactics in Georgia: you wake to the sound of a nightime intruder. You grab your Biden-approved scatter gun to investigate and discover an unarmed, but intoxicated or mentally ill, burglar who ignores your commands to freeze. Worse, he charges right at you! You can plainly see that he is unarmed, but he also is clearly younger and stronger than you. What do you do? Does the answer change if you are inside your home vs outside in your yard?

How can you nonlethally defend yourself from a fistfight while holding a gun (especially an unwieldy long gun)? Or can you justify prophylactically shooting a completely unarmed man because he *might* subsequently disarm you and use it against you?

In the case you outlined - unarmed, apparently fit, offender in your home, ignoring your commands, and advancing on you, an armed homeowner - first question what would a reasonable person believe the offender's intent was as he advanced?

Up front, where this differs from the Georgia case is that you are clearly in your castle and have not left your property to pursue this man.

In the case we are speaking of, in many, if not most, states, given the fact pattern you stipulate, you would be legally justified in firing to stop the assailant's advance, while both parties are inside your home.

In the same circumstances, outside your home, the situation is more nebulous, because some state's statutes differ on this point. One consideration is, what prompted you to leave your house, armed with a shotgun to confront this man?

In most cases it would be in your best interests to post up inside your house and call the police so long as the intoxicated/mentally impaired person is not taking action that a reasonable person believes is likely to result in death or great bodily harm.

It has already been mentioned, but the thing that most folks don't think about before they use force they aren't absolutely required to use, is how much the ticket to ride can potentially cost them.

My background is as an LE trainer. In the past I've been certified as an expert witness on force matters in Federal and State Court. As a result, I've been called upon by civil attorneys who have offered several thousand dollars for me to write reports and testify. Who do you think pays for that?

Far better to avoid the use of force in situations where it isn't brought to you.

[Coyotesfan97]

Another great time to have a German, Belgian, or Dutch home security system.

I have a retired Dutch Shepherd in an air crate next to my bed. I have no doubts about whether he’d bite. He’d be like I just got reactivated. Woohoo!

[Coyotesfan97]

Butt stroke to the head and...MOVE!

I've only had to wield a guy off me while holding a long gun once. Another officer went to hip toss him off a porch, misjudged, and literally threw him at me. I instinctively butt stroked the guy between the shoulder blades to make space. Butt strokes, muzzle punches, etc. can work. I'm much more willing to try when I've got a couple of my also armed buddies involved. At home when it's just me and if I go down my family is up next, not so much.

I was trained in muzzled strikes by a 19th SF Officer who was on our SWAT team. I’ve used a muzzle strike once in my career. I was very careful to document my trading and experience to justify its use. I’ve been told my supplement has been used in justifying UoF in low frequency high risk encounters.

[andre3k]

You can beat the fuck out of someone with a long gun, just saying.

Or they beat the fuck out of you with your own gun.

I read a bunch of robbery reports every week where armed people get their weapons snatched and they end up in sitting in a parking lot with head bleeding waiting on an ambulance and police to arrive. It happens more often than I thought.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Clusterfrack]

Or they beat the fuck out of you with your own gun.

I read a bunch of robbery reports every week where armed people get their weapons snatched and they end up in sitting in a parking lot with head bleeding waiting on an ambulance and police to arrive. It happens more often than I thought.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

This is why we need to train retention and other ECQC skills, as well as how and when to fire a shot. At least in my experience as a civilian in training scenarios, a long gun makes this more challenging. But those challenges can be overcome with practice.

[Oukaapie]

....

[Doc_Glock]

What if scenario sparked by the suboptimal citizens' arrest tactics in Georgia: you wake to the sound of a nightime intruder. You grab your Biden-approved scatter gun to investigate and discover an unarmed, but intoxicated or mentally ill, burglar who ignores your commands to freeze. Worse, he charges right at you! You can plainly see that he is unarmed, but he also is clearly younger and stronger than you. What do you do? Does the answer change if you are inside your home vs outside in your yard?

How can you nonlethally defend yourself from a fistfight while holding a gun (especially an unwieldy long gun)? Or can you justify prophylactically shooting a completely unarmed man because he *might* subsequently disarm you and use it against you?

I am with @blues, anyone who approaches me after breaking into in my home after clear commands to leave gets shot. I see no need for any warning etc. I have fought enough to know I don’t ever want to go hands on. Because I suck at fighting.

[DDTSGM]

Or they beat the fuck out of you with your own gun.

I read a bunch of robbery reports every week where armed people get their weapons snatched and they end up in sitting in a parking lot with head bleeding waiting on an ambulance and police to arrive. It happens more often than I thought.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

This is why we need to train retention and other ECQC skills, as well as how and when to fire a shot. At least in my experience as a civilian in training scenarios, a long gun makes this more challenging. But those challenges can be overcome with practice.

CF: in this case you are preaching to the choir that makes up a very small portion of armed Americans. The reality is that most LEO's, who should see a real need to, don't practice weapon retention skills unless required to at in-service training.

Another problem is where to get initial training? Not everyone has the time or money to attend an out-of-state training event.

Reality is the best action might be for trainers to instill a mindset to avoid those situations if at all possible, and if not possible, use force to protect the firearm from attack.

[md8232]

Had something close to this happen some years ago.
Middle of Night, Wife & dog trying to see who was more hysterical.
Me with G19 at my side. Urban Yute stopped 1 step from meeting a 147 HST.

Turned out he was celebrating the birth of his illegitimate spawn by driving an
hour out into the boonies to steal a 3 wheeler. It didn’t go well and he
“just wanted his mommie”

Delivered his Azz to the Man, then had a CSB for work.