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Thread: What if: Unarmed assailant charges while you're holding a long gun

  1. #21
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex G View Post

    IF an opponent already has his hands on the weapon, and he is of equal or greater physical strength, and is pulling the weapon toward himself, one concept is to resist the urge to pull against his pull, but, instead, PUSH in response to his pull, which might well momentarily unbalance and/or rattle him. Perhaps, push toward his pull, and during a moment of his imbalance, shove HARD in a downward direction. This can give one a moment in time to get inside his OODA loop, and, perhaps, open the door for a strike, or, just maybe, trapping one of his hands, which can lead to another move.

    If an opponent has performed the classic move of grabbing both ends of the weapon, and then using his resulting greater leverage to windmill-twist the weapon away, well, again, rather than resist his twisting, violently move WITH his twisting, for a brief moment, then during his moment of imbalance, redirect the force.

    The instant that an opponent places his hands on one’s long gun might be a VERY GOOD TIME to have a knife or SECURELY HOLSTERED handgun positioned for quick access. This would be a good time to have familiarization with pikal/reverse-grip, edge-in.
    I will emphasize that if an opponent has one or both hands on my weapon, I see this as lethal force already in progress, and, any action taken as a next step, in either of the above scenarios, must be decisive and swift, lest the opponent recover, and regain an advantage.
    Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.

    Don’t tread on volcanos!

  2. #22
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    Just my .02

    We've recently seen where a professional UFC fighter struggled with this same situation in his own home. I am no where near as skilled as he is in hand to hand combatives and it was an eye opener to him the challenge it was when dealing with an attacker that was in an altered mental state.

    As many have already said, if an intruder enters my home while I am there he has done so despite clear signs the residence is occupied (no garage so cars are visible from the road) and despite two dogs inside. If I encounter him and am armed and issuing commands and he advances or charges he is either to drugged or deranged to know or care or has sized me up and decided he can take me. I'm 6'4" 240lbs and likely the only thing between him and my family. If he beats me the consequences are potentially dire and at that point he would no longer potentially be unarmed. If he's sized me up and thinks he can take me, I have to assume he may be right.

    I'm also not sure how you'd definitively determine a person to be unarmed without securing and searching them unless they were fully nude. Fully nude attacker likely falls in that drugged or deranged category and "crazy strength" comes into play.

    I hope to never have to make this decision and am in the process of further hardening my doors for additional security. If I'm caught unarmed in a situation such as this, then shame on me and I guess its on.

  3. #23
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    rd, you're a better man than I am.

    If someone breaks into my home, whether oh-dark-thirty or while the sun is out, they get one chance to vacate the premises under clear, concise, vocal commands. After that, I will throw myself upon the mercy of the great state of NC and its law enforcement officers for what transpires in its wake.

    I have no intention of going hands on in my home with some miscreant that decided it looked like an opportunity. My dog may feel differently.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    rd, you're a better man than I am.

    If someone breaks into my home, whether oh-dark-thirty or while the sun is out, they get one chance to vacate the premises under clear, concise, vocal commands. After that, I will throw myself upon the mercy of the great state of NC and its law enforcement officers for what transpires in its wake.

    I have no intention of going hands on in my home with some miscreant that decided it looked like an opportunity. My dog may feel differently.
    Don't give me too much credit that was only if I'm caught unarmed and have no other recourse.

    I have no intentions either if it can be avoided.

  5. #25
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    The tool strikes me as irrelevant. If someone is unavoidably worth shooting, they’re worth shooting with pistol and long arm alike. If an intruder in my home thinks that they can take me, with a gun in my hand, it really doesn’t matter which gun. This isn't a long gun v pistol question; this is a tactics, training, and "understanding state case law" question.

  6. #26
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Good post. Gun grappling with a carbine (safe or blue, obviously) is a good thing to explore. There are definitely some opportunities for the unarmed person that aren't present with a handgun.

    Quote Originally Posted by rd62 View Post
    Just my .02

    We've recently seen where a professional UFC fighter struggled with this same situation in his own home. I am no where near as skilled as he is in hand to hand combatives and it was an eye opener to him the challenge it was when dealing with an attacker that was in an altered mental state.

    As many have already said, if an intruder enters my home while I am there he has done so despite clear signs the residence is occupied (no garage so cars are visible from the road) and despite two dogs inside. If I encounter him and am armed and issuing commands and he advances or charges he is either to drugged or deranged to know or care or has sized me up and decided he can take me. I'm 6'4" 240lbs and likely the only thing between him and my family. If he beats me the consequences are potentially dire and at that point he would no longer potentially be unarmed. If he's sized me up and thinks he can take me, I have to assume he may be right.

    I'm also not sure how you'd definitively determine a person to be unarmed without securing and searching them unless they were fully nude. Fully nude attacker likely falls in that drugged or deranged category and "crazy strength" comes into play.

    I hope to never have to make this decision and am in the process of further hardening my doors for additional security. If I'm caught unarmed in a situation such as this, then shame on me and I guess its on.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  7. #27
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    I AM NOT YOUR ATTY. I AM NOT GIVING YOU LEGAL ADVICE. ANY OPINIONS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN AND DO NOT CONSTITUTE THOSE OF ANY EMPLOYER, PAST, PRESENT OR FUTURE.

    The answer is-it depends. The law vary widely amongst the 50 states. The likely and/predictable application of said laws varies widely within the state. There are some locales where if you shoot someone to death inside your home, bare minimum, you may spend the night in jail and a grand jury is going to decide your initial fate, end of story, full stop. In other places, there will be a very strong presumption in your favor as the descendant was perceived to live a life that demanded that someone kill him and it was just a matter of time until he found someone to oblige him. In my metro area, there are 2 states and 6 counties in play.


    You should be seeking your advice from an atty who practices in the criminal law area and who has experience in your specific locale. Almost always, the best criminal defense lawyers in an area were prosecutors, public defenders or both, often in the geographic area where they are now doing defense work. These individuals have the education/training/experience and access that others do not.

    I say that with the utmost respect to those who have endeavored to answer then question, particularly those whose answers reflect the fluidity in this area of the law given where they live.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    How can you nonlethally defend yourself from a fistfight while holding a gun (especially an unwieldy long gun)?
    Next time you find yourself passing a Marine recruiting station with two cups of coffee and a bag of doughnuts, walk in and ask the guy who stands up. It is astonishing what one can learn from a GySgt.

  9. #29
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duces Tecum View Post
    Next time you find yourself passing a Marine recruiting station with two cups of coffee and a bag of doughnuts, walk in and ask the guy who stands up. It is astonishing what one can learn from a GySgt.
    Butt stroke to the head and...MOVE!

    I've only had to wield a guy off me while holding a long gun once. Another officer went to hip toss him off a porch, misjudged, and literally threw him at me. I instinctively butt stroked the guy between the shoulder blades to make space. Butt strokes, muzzle punches, etc. can work. I'm much more willing to try when I've got a couple of my also armed buddies involved. At home when it's just me and if I go down my family is up next, not so much.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  10. #30
    Member MVS's Avatar
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    As the question is worded, the answer is pretty simple for me. He gets a butt stroke.

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