Shooting of jogger in GA

[jlw]

As the jogger is approaching, the driver is in the street on the driver's side of the truck.



The jogger changes course to go around the passenger side of the truck.







The driver crosses in front of the truck to intercept the jogger.







Fight ensues.

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The above statements are indisputable facts. The rest will be up to the grand jurors and possibly traverse jurors.

Was the father/son's attempt to perform a citizen's arrest lawful? If not, GA law allows for the use of deadly force to resist an unlawful arrest.

Did the jogger know he was being "arrested", or did he just know that he was jogging down the street only to be confronted by a dude with a shotgun?


***Thanks to John Correia for pulling the screenshots for me.

[blues]

Why?

From the video I saw, it looked like the runner ran around the right side of the truck, then crossed to the left side of the truck after passing the front of the truck, and the runner went hands on and attempted to wrestle the long gun from one of the individuals.

Sounds like the video corroborates what statements of the individuals involved made.

What facts about the shooting itself am I missing?

Exactly. What we don't know is what prompted him to do so. (Confront the armed individual and attempt to wrestle the firearm away.)

We also don't know whether he was observed committing a crime. From what I read last night, he is alleged to have peered through a window of a building under construction. (He may have trespassed but whether anything else was amiss remains to be determined.)

I also read that he was alleged to "look like" someone that had committed some burglaries in the area. That's not a felony in my experience. But it may raise reasonable suspicion under certain circumstances taken in the aggregate.

Unfortunately, he appears to have brought on his own demise by attempting to disarm the son. Though I don't know what may have ultimately prompted that action...fear, anger, indignation, desperation or some combination.

Had he continued running, perhaps this would have reached a different conclusion.

[SWAT Lt.]

From my vantage point, I saw two armed men attempting to detain someone and that someone then fighting over a gun resulting in him getting shot & killed.





I don't know that he was a burglar, but you do have the right to use necessary force to effect a citizen's arrest of a felony suspect in every state of the union.

Are you sure about that? What about using Deadly Force to make that "citizen's arrest"? What about initiating a confrontation on a public street that will likely be seen as unnecessary and avoidable that resulted in a homicide? What if you're wrong and your "suspect" hadn't done shit and ends up getting smoked? I don't know what happened, just saw the video, but I believe some people are about to go to prison. There will be a large civil suit, guilty or not. Not to mention the astronomical criminal and civil defense legal fees and the enormous stress to all involved, and their families. One can do as they wish, but I'd be really careful with that whole "citizen's arrest" thing.

[jlw]

It does not matter what the law is in "every state". The law in GA is as follows:


17-4-60 OCGA:

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.


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17-4-61:

(a) A private person who makes an arrest pursuant to Code Section 17-4-60 shall, without any unnecessary delay, take the person arrested before a judicial officer, as provided in Code Section 17-4-62, or deliver the person and all effects removed from him to a peace officer of this state.(b) A peace officer who takes custody of a person arrested by a private person shall immediately proceed in accordance with Code Section 17-4-62.
(c) A peace officer who in good faith and within the scope of his authority takes custody of a person arrested by a private person pursuant to this Code section shall not be liable at law for false arrest or false imprisonment arising out of the arrest.

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17-4-62:

In every case of an arrest without a warrant, the person arresting shall, without delay, convey the offender before the most convenient judicial officer authorized to receive an affidavit and issue a warrant as provided for in Code Section 17-4-40. No such imprisonment shall be legal beyond a reasonable time allowed for this purpose; and any person who is not brought before such judicial officer within 48 hours of arrest shall be released.

[Stephanie B]

I also read that he was alleged to "look like" someone that had committed some burglaries in the area. That's not a felony in my experience. But it may raise reasonable suspicion under certain circumstances taken in the aggregate.

For cops, probably. I don't know from Georgia. In the states that I was familiar with, a lawful citizen's arrest required that the arrestee have, in fact, committed the offense. If not, then it's not a citizen's arrest, it's a kidnapping.

I think the question came up for me professionally once in my legal career. My advice was to be a good witness and call the cops.

[Grey]

Why?

From the video I saw, it looked like the runner ran around the right side of the truck, then crossed to the left side of the truck after passing the front of the truck, and the runner went hands on and attempted to wrestle the long gun from one of the individuals.

Sounds like the video corroborates what statements of the individuals involved made.

What facts about the shooting itself am I missing?

You probably aren't missing anything.

I have zero law enforcement experience, extremely limited amount of information and based on one or two articles and the video my opinion is that this doesn't look good and it looks like two dudes doing something they probably regret doing because its a giant cluster now.

The follow on screen shots that have been posted make it look even worse for the two in the truck. Again, no idea what laws are in GA regarding a "citizens arrest" but driving after a jogger and then attempting to detain him with guns... maybe not the best idea...

Again, just my opinion which means absolutely nothing regarding this matter.

[RevolverRob]

From my vantage point, I saw two armed men attempting to detain someone and that someone then fighting over a gun resulting in him getting shot & killed.





I don't know that he was a burglar, but you do have the right to use necessary force to effect a citizen's arrest of a felony suspect in every state of the union.

You are conflating necessary and reasonable.

[RevolverRob]

For cops, probably. I don't know from Georgia. In the states that I was familiar with, a lawful citizen's arrest required that the arrestee have, in fact, committed the offense. If not, then it's not a citizen's arrest, it's a kidnapping.

I think the question came up for me professionally once in my legal career. My advice was to be a good witness and call the cops.

Looks like according to the statutes @jlw posted - That they must have knowledge/witnessed the crime.

In Illinois it is:

(725 ILCS 5/107-3) (from Ch. 38, par. 107-3)
Sec. 107-3. Arrest by private person.
Any person may arrest another when he has reasonable grounds to believe that an offense other than an ordinance violation is being committed.

[Hideeho]

I don't know that he was a burglar, but you do have the right to use necessary force to effect a citizen's arrest of a felony suspect in every state of the union.

An issue civilians need be concerned with is what is called "Reasonable Cause". Police can make arrests based on reasonable cause. For civilians, the crime must have in fact been committed. If you didn't see, don't try to make an arrest. It could lead to a false arrest for which you won't be indemnified. When I policed, the city paid my tab if I acted in good faith. There is no good faith exception, other than mercy of jury.

This is an extract from New York State Criminal Procedure Law regarding arrests by civilians. Take note, for offenses less than felony, the offense must have occurred in your presence, which is an even stricter standard. There are exceptions related to store security. Most states have similar laws. "Citizen's arrest" is not a simple cuff and stuff. When friends asks my counsel, I tell them be eyes and ears, call 911, keep suspect in sight. Let police do the policing.

As for civilian use of force, it is more problematic. Put a gun to my face, that's bang bang. Run away from a crime, that's bye-bye.

As always, YMMV.

140.30 Arrest without a warrant; by any person; when and where authorized.

1. Subject to the provisions of subdivision two, any person may arrest another person (a) for a felony when the latter has in fact committed such felony, and (b) for any offense when the latter has in fact committed such offense in his presence.

2. Such an arrest, if for a felony, may be made anywhere in the state. If the arrest is for an offense other than a felony, it may be made only in the county in which such offense was committed.

[ssb]

One thing that's in the back of my head is whether a lack of enforcement (perceived or actual) on the part of LE agencies in response to the whole COVID thing may have motivated these two to act.