Shooting of jogger in GA

[Joe in PNG]

It wasn't intended to comment on the relative racism of different parts of the country - just that in both cases the initial media reports of a large number of bystanders doing absolutely nothing was absolutely wrong.

I am personally surprised how many people think doing anything more than calling police is inappropriate. For instance, on another forum a majority of people seem to blame the motorcyclist for following the road rager while on the phone with police. In their mind, he is at fault for the shooting because he should have just called in the plate number and trusted the system...

But is following a Road Rager a smart thing to do, risk wise? Even if one is trying to get info to the police? Especially on a motorcycle, where one usually needs more than one hand to safely operate the controls!

Consider the "DR ABC" that is often taught for first aid. The first part of that is "Danger"- that you don't add to the number of casualties by becoming one yourself.

In the area of personal protection, there's a similar principle at work- Don't take on unneeded risk. If the situation is bad enough that you need law enforcement, it's probably also bad enough that you need to get away from it.

[BehindBlueI's]

I am personally surprised how many people think doing anything more than calling police is inappropriate. For instance, on another forum a majority of people seem to blame the motorcyclist for following the road rager while on the phone with police. In their mind, he is at fault for the shooting because he should have just called in the plate number and trusted the system...

Refer back to my "am I willing to get in a shooting or be shot over this" rule. He's not at fault, but his actions were a contributing factor.

I suspect if you poll any number of people who've shot someone stateside and dealt with that aftermath you'll find a lot of agreement. Even if you're the hero of the minute that shits forgotten next news cycle/promotion test and it's much more likely you'll be drug through the shit. So make it over something worthwhile if you're going to do it.

Set your bar for voluntary conflict high because you win every fight you avoid, you aren't sued, you don't put your family through the stress, etc. I don't give two shits about some road rager. My ego is not challenged by him and he can 'win' the road because I don't give those shits. Put another way, you shoot him and he's a part of your life forever. Ignore him and you forget he exists 5 minutes later. Why the fuck would I follow him?

[0ddl0t]

Why the fuck would I follow him?

I guess I see thresholds for intervention. Assault with a deadly weapon (intentionally running a car into a motorcyclist) meets that threshold for me. My threshold might be higher if I had confidence that simply giving the plate # to a 911 dispatcher would result in arrest/prosecution/conviction, but that wasn't my experience when I witnessed a passenger intentionally throw open their door into a bicyclist, knocking him down, and drive away.

[Borderland]

One thousand fucking likes

I’m so goddamn tired of the “racist Southerner” trope.

Most racist Motherfuckers I’ve ever met are from Cali, NY, Boston, the NW, etc.

We have our share of them here, that's for sure.

[Duelist]

I guess I see thresholds for intervention. Assault with a deadly weapon (intentionally running a car into a motorcyclist) meets that threshold for me. My threshold might be higher if I had confidence that simply giving the plate # to a 911 dispatcher would result in arrest/prosecution/conviction, but that wasn't my experience when I witnessed a passenger intentionally throw open their door into a bicyclist, knocking him down, and drive away.

Does that mean you need to follow them for miles, try to get them to stop, confront them on their front lawn? Increased willingness to get involved is a maybe, but to what level of increase? Are you willing to get shot over it? Are you willing to kill a pregnant woman over it?

Take the road rager from this angle (not saying it’s accurate, just a different angle): Lone pregnant woman in a car is followed by a crazed male motorcyclist screaming that she needs to f’ing stop, right f’ing now, that she tried to f’ing kill him, etc. Would you (if a woman) stop? Would you want your wife, sister, or daughter to stop? Whether or not she actually bumped him, and whether or not she bumped him on purpose?

I’d tell her to call 911 herself, and drive to a police station (rather than home to get a gun). I suppose I could be wrong.

[Joe in PNG]

I guess I see thresholds for intervention. Assault with a deadly weapon (intentionally running a car into a motorcyclist) meets that threshold for me. My threshold might be higher if I had confidence that simply giving the plate # to a 911 dispatcher would result in arrest/prosecution/conviction, but that wasn't my experience when I witnessed a passenger intentionally throw open their door into a bicyclist, knocking him down, and drive away.

Is the incident something worth all the money you'll ever see to pay someone to explain to a judge and jury why you really didn't mean to do what you did? Especially if your actions are causing the incident to continue.

Getting tagged while on a motorcycle is one thing. Following afterwards to get some measure of personal revenge, because you don't have confidence that the law enforcement agencies or court system will deal with it adequately is- what's the word again that rhymes with "stupid"?- and is going to add a dozen feet to the yacht some lawyer is about to buy.

If you can't trust law enforcement after a tag and go, what's following them going to change? How's following them going to make your case?

And to clarify- this situation is "they did something bad and are now leaving the scene". Not "they are doing something bad and are still there doing something bad and are keeping you from leaving" or "they did something bad, and are chasing you".

[Kanye Wyoming]

Refer back to my "am I willing to get in a shooting or be shot over this" rule.

Set your bar for voluntary conflict high because you win every fight you avoid, you aren't sued, you don't put your family through the stress, etc. I don't give two shits about some road rager. My ego is not challenged by him and he can 'win' the road because I don't give those shits. Put another way, you shoot him and he's a part of your life forever. Ignore him and you forget he exists 5 minutes later. Why the fuck would I follow him?

Indeed.

[0ddl0t]

These things I would do because I would hope someone else would do them if I were the victim:

Does that mean you need to follow them for miles, try to get them to stop, confront them on their front lawn? Increased willingness to get involved is a maybe, but to what level of increase? Are you willing to get shot over it? Are you willing to kill a pregnant woman over it?

I wouldn't try to get her to stop, but I would follow her and report location to 911. When she ran into the house, I'd remain outside in my car until police came and could take my statement.

Take the road rager from this angle (not saying it’s accurate, just a different angle): Lone pregnant woman in a car is followed by a crazed male motorcyclist screaming that she needs to f’ing stop, right f’ing now, that she tried to f’ing kill him, etc. Would you (if a woman) stop? Would you want your wife, sister, or daughter to stop? Whether or not she actually bumped him, and whether or not she bumped him on purpose?

Well yeah, if she bumped him she absolutely needs to stop and remain on the scene. If he then escalated things to the point she reasonably feared for her safety, then I could see leaving. Either way she wasn't on the phone with 911, nor did she drive to the police station.

If you can't trust law enforcement after a tag and go, what's following them going to change? How's following them going to make your case?

The way things are here if I remain on the phone with 911 while following the car, the dispatcher will send a unit. If I hang up, the call no longer gets the same priority and a car may or may not be dispatched depending on how busy things are. And, no, my following wouldn't force dispatch to pull an officer off a more important call, but it might make the dispatcher go through the hassle of calling in an mutual aid agency when they otherwise would not.

[Joe in PNG]

These things I would do because I would hope someone else would do them if I were the victim:

I wouldn't try to get her to stop, but I would follow her and report location to 911. When she ran into the house, I'd remain outside in my car until police came and could take my statement.

The way things are here if I remain on the phone with 911 while following the car, the dispatcher will send a unit. If I hang up, the call no longer gets the same priority and a car may or may not be dispatched depending on how busy things are. And, no, my following wouldn't force dispatch to pull an officer off a more important call, but it might make the dispatcher go through the hassle of calling in an mutual aid agency when they otherwise would not.

Still not helping, and is still more likely to make more trouble than it solves.

So, you're following some now frightened gal on a motorcycle. How do you know she's not calling her husband/ boyfriend/ dad who will be waiting to shoot you with a longarm of some sort? Is being shot really worth it?

Or, you think that by being there will make the dispatcher actually send a unit to where you are at? I'd like to see our LE members comment on that situation, and if it would actually result in anything at all productive to actual public safety.
It could be that the person you are following has won the race to 911 (motorcycle, remember?) and reported you as the creepy stalker... and you get arrested, served with an Order of Protection, and goodby a fair amount of rights.

And if those things, and other potential bad things don't happen, how is following the person supposed to make your case better than calling it in as a hit and run- and staying at the scene of the accident until the cops get there.

[0ddl0t]

I don't consider myself some sheepdog with a savior complex, but I would feel morally obligated to act upon witnessing a potentially lethal attack. Yes, I would assume all those risks.