Shooting of jogger in GA

[blues]

All I can say is to parrot notable self defense experts and previous posters in this thread, say that if two armed dudes roll up on you and demand you get in a vehicle, your odds of survival have dropped.

Significantly.

Citizens arrest be damned. I'm willing to wait for the cops. I will not enter a vehicle under the premise of being taken to them. That's the point where I'm really hoping to have a weapon on me.

And let's address the elephant in the room. A black dude probably doesn't feel comfortable when armed white dudes in a pickup truck start following him. If they're not obviously LE, then even to any of us white folks, that's looking like a predator move. It's testing the waters. It's evaluating if you're a victim. You're being selected.

While some of us may assume these guys were "protecting their neighborhood because Corona related PD shortages" can we really assume that's what was going through this dudes head? Because my inner dialogue would be "these guys might try to kill me because they know there are Corona related PD shortages"

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

Bolded section: One of the few hard and fast "rules" I was alluding to above.

Another...don't give up your gun.

[Zincwarrior]

I think that the statements given to law enforcement by the three men who followed the decedent are going to be just as important as the video and the complete 911 transcripts. Unless someone here is actually involved in the investigation/prosecution, I don’t think anyone in this thread can definitively say, one way or the other, whether the armed men committed a crime. There is a boat load of evidence that we don’t have access to.

Is trespassing on a construction site a felony or a misdemeanor in GA? I think that will make a difference regarding how reasonable these actions were.

So how many exactly were chasing the jogger?

[joshs]

It does, but does not allow for citizens' use of deadly force to effect a citizen's arrest. It also significantly restricts the times and circumstances in which a peace officer may use deadly force to effect an arrest.

If the need for deadly force arises while using reasonable force to effectuate an arrest (the arrestee attacks the person making the lawful arrest and puts them in reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury), why wouldn't a traditional self-defense justification work for the use of deadly force? The force isn't being used to effectuate the arrest, but the need for deadly force arose in the course of a lawful arrest.

ETA: I'm not saying that's what happened in this case. There isn't enough information available to make that determination yet.

[MickAK]

All I can say is to parrot notable self defense experts and previous posters in this thread, say that if two armed dudes roll up on you and demand you get in a vehicle, your odds of survival have dropped.

Significantly.

Citizens arrest be damned. I'm willing to wait for the cops. I will not enter a vehicle under the premise of being taken to them. That's the point where I'm really hoping to have a weapon on me.

And let's address the elephant in the room. A black dude probably doesn't feel comfortable when armed white dudes in a pickup truck start following him. If they're not obviously LE, then even to any of us white folks, that's looking like a predator move. It's testing the waters. It's evaluating if you're a victim. You're being selected.

While some of us may assume these guys were "protecting their neighborhood because Corona related PD shortages" can we really assume that's what was going through this dudes head? Because my inner dialogue would be "these guys might try to kill me because they know there are Corona related PD shortages"

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

This happened February 23rd. There were no Corona related PD shortages at the time. Most people at the time were still ignoring COVID-19.

I think it's important to note that the initial contact they had with him isn't shown in the video. They grabbed guns, which is reasonable given that a previously burglary had involved a gun getting stolen, but assuming they rolled up on him with guns pointed at him is potentially inaccurate. They're not even pointing guns at him when they get out of the truck. The police report states they attempted to stop him and speak to him and he took off running the other way. No mention of guns getting pointed or even being visible. Also, from the letter from the DA I posted states 'Arbery's mental health records & prior convictions help explain his apparent aggressive nature and his possible thought pattern to attack an armed man.'.

[jrm]

I disagree. If you haven't read it yet, here is a letter from one of the DA's that recused himself.
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthel...ull.pdf#page=1

You are making assumptions based on a brief video clip. You are disseminating the idea that this was a 'Klan' lynching. I think you might want to slow down and do some reading first.

No one has said it was a clan lynching you brought that up. The comparison to that event is simply to give possible insight on what an innocent person might interpret the presence of armed men setting up some sort of road block to capture you. I have no idea your race but let’s imagine you are a white man being followed by a group of black panthers who set up a road block to apprehend you. What would you assume their intentions to be. Something may have transpired prior to the video that could make this make sense but I haven’t heard it yet. I haven’t heard anything that even sounds like the deceased committed a crime. No one has said he took anything no one has presented evidence he indented to steal anything or commit any felony so typically you do not have burglary under those circumstances. Is simple trespass even a crime at all in Georgia. The DA made no attempt to explain why the deceased was a legitimate burglary suspect. So go ahead and call me a race baiter but I see the DA accepting the account of the two who did the killing at face value and assigning criminal blame to the deceased with out any evidence to do so. Some sort of bias seems to be at work maybe it’s racial, maybe it is because of the mothers contact with him regarding the death of her son and separate from race, maybe it’s because one of the shooters is a former investigator good ol boy. I don’t know but something non objective seems to be going on.

[Le Français]

Okay procedural question for our LE:

At what point is the distinction between detaining and arresting? I guess I see the big bold line is pre-post being given your Miranda warning. I assume this varies a bit by locale, I’m just trying to get a sense of:

The Miranda warning is only required (and even then, with some exceptions) before in-custody interrogations. People are routinely (and legally) arrested, booked, prosecuted, convicted, and imprisoned without ever having been informed of their Miranda rights by an LEO. I’ve arrested a lot of people without Miranda.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Except the video was released by the attorney representing the guy in the pickup bed.

Perry Moron, I assume.

[WobblyPossum]

So how many exactly were chasing the jogger?

My understanding from the DA’s letter and video is that there were three men: the armed father/son duo in one truck, and another male in a second vehicle. The third male is who likely filmed the video.

[Gray Ghost]

[snip]If you haven't read it yet, here is a letter from one of the DA's that recused himself.
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthel...ull.pdf#page=1

Everyone, do yourselves a favor and don't post anymore until you read this letter. It contains actual facts and a summary of the evidence.

[Zincwarrior]

My understanding from the DA’s letter and video is that there were three men: the armed father/son duo in one truck, and another male in a second vehicle. The third male is who likely filmed the video.

Thanks.