IDPA - appendix carry?

[GyroF-16]

Not less accessible, just safer. I don’t think a match is the right place for a 9yr old kid to learn how to draw and holster safely, let alone run with a gun.

I’d certainly agree with you on that example.

After a few uncomfortable moments with new shooters, one of the IDPA clubs I SO for introduced a “holster and safety certification” for shooters new to the club. I haven’t participated in teaching it, but it seems to be a short new-shooters class conducted immediately before the match. It’s mostly an opportunity to convey safety expectations to the new folks, and give them a chance to demonstrate that they understand them before “going hot” in their first match. The MD then ensures that the SO running their squad is aware who is new. They then get a little extra instruction and vigilance throughout the match. It seems to work pretty well.

[CalAlumnus]

I’d certainly agree with you on that example.

After a few uncomfortable moments with new shooters, one of the IDPA clubs I SO for introduced a “holster and safety certification” for shooters new to the club. I haven’t participated in teaching it, but it seems to be a short new-shooters class conducted immediately before the match. It’s mostly an opportunity to convey safety expectations to the new folks, and give them a chance to demonstrate that they understand them before “going hot” in their first match. The MD then ensures that the SO running their squad is aware who is new. They then get a little extra instruction and vigilance throughout the match. It seems to work pretty well.

My local club required new shooters show up to a ~4 hour class before their first match

Match day rolls along with a new shooter (who, of course, completed the training). Stage One called for the gun to start in an IDPA box. As the squad is downrange taping and brassing, new guy walks up to box, draws, and sets his gun inside. Ugh. DQ'd before his first stage.

Guy seemed smart enough, but it's a lot to remember. "It's not loaded! I was just trying to keep things moving!" Brain farts happen; tough to completely eliminate them in training.

[olstyn]

Not less accessible, just safer. I don’t think a match is the right place for a 9yr old kid to learn how to draw and holster safely, let alone run with a gun.

I think we may have been talking past each other - I wasn't even thinking in terms of 9-year olds, and If I had to guess, I'd say the youngest I've seen at a match was at least 11 or 12 years old, and those kids had been extensively coached by parents who were already into the sport before they ever showed up to compete. I 100% agree that it's not the right place for young kids to learn holster skills, but I have seen plenty of first time adults show up, take instruction well, go slowly until they achieve competence/confidence, and then go on to become good. I'd be fine with a "no AIWB until you show that you're safe" plan, along with a minimum age limit, but excluding people altogether until they take a class seems a bit extreme to me.

[Clusterfrack]

@plstyn, I see where you’re coming from. I don’t think we are talking past each other though. I would support a mandatory safety class for all action shooting sports. The stakes are too high to assume that everyone can be safe with ad hoc coaching. I’ve seen personally that this is not the case.

[Wendell]

Not less accessible, just safer.

Whether or not that was the intention, or the objective, isn't really the point, creating any extra barriers - even a barrier intended to make things 'safer' - actually makes the sport less accessible.

In his books, economist John Lott has warned us about the economic effects of state-required carry permits and any state-required training for to obtain a state-required carry permit. In short, he found that, contrary to the notion that increased training would offer society some kind of benefit, any added requirement actually acted as a disincentive to participate (in carrying a firearm, lawfully), and that - because of the measurable economic benefits associated with lawfully-carried firearms - any added requirement (that reduced the number of people carrying) did not return any economic benefit at all, but instead actually came with it's own economic cost.

[45dotACP]

@plstyn, I see where you’re coming from. I don’t think we are talking past each other though. I would support a mandatory safety class for all action shooting sports. The stakes are too high to assume that everyone can be safe with ad hoc coaching. I’ve seen personally that this is not the case.

Heh...yeah.

I watched a dude nearly blow his index finger off a few months back. His grip was shitty, he was shooting a short pistol...m&p shield or something....and with each shot the index finger that he swore he kept on the trigger guard crept that much closer to the muzzle.

If he'd been using anything with more than a 7 round capacity, he'd be shy a left index fingerprint.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Clusterfrack]

@Wendell, I think this question is good to keep discussing. You make some valid points, and I understand why you feel this way. However, how many lethal accidents involving a 9 year old kid shooting IDPA or USPSA do you think it would take for us to lose our sport?

[jeep45238]

@Wendell, I think this question is good to keep discussing. You make some valid points, and I understand why you feel this way. However, how many lethal accidents involving a 9 year old kid shooting IDPA or USPSA do you think it would take for us to lose our sport?

Oh......about negative one.

[Sal Picante]

I'm not sure I'd approve of that. It really sounds like you and Clusterfrack want to make these sports less accessible. Maybe things are different where you are, but clubs in my local area are really good about shepherding new shooters through their first match or two, making sure they understand safety rules, etc.

It isn't like that... The trouble was with volume of shooters and limited match space, honestly...
We've had varying degrees of success getting newbies up to speed.

[Clusterfrack]

Here’s a thought: what activities require formal training? Flying airplanes seems like a good example. Would anyone argue that ad hoc coaching should be enough for a person to fly a plane, and carry passengers? How about racing cars?