IDPA - appendix carry?

[rawkguitarist]

Well.... its already begun. One of my local IDPA clubs already sent out the email stating "for safety reasons" they will not be allowing AIWB. The best evidence the MD could site was the typical almost mythological "shoot yourself in the genitals or even femoral artery"... and listed a single ND in the clubs history. This gentleman is a nice guy and does a lot of work to insure people have *two* matches every month. But this stuff gets really old... he doesn't understand how the holsters are designed and that a simple forward hip reholstering nearly insures the muzzle is never pointed at the body during this process. Nor has he apparently taken the time to learn about it.

If my personal range club pulls this I'll have a respectful talk with the MD. #1 Since USPSA allows AIWB, has anyone shot their "dick off" yet? #2 does carrying AIWB magically induce competitors to forget the 2nd and 3rd rule of firearms safety?

[Elwin]

This may have been answered before, and if so my bad. Is an IDPA match allowed to prohibit something that the rules specifically allow? How would that be different from a club saying “no 1911s in ECP”?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I'm ok with appendix carry for others. It's your dick. In fact, shooting yourself like that is probably less likely to shoot me as in the guy who put a 45 ACP into the ground a few inches from my foot on a load and make ready with a 1911 at a match. Or is that person likely to totally miss a holster with a nondrop free gun that killed an SO in Rochester.

On the other hand, when I did a Lone Star course on trauma, we did not do how to deal with staunching the flow of blood from the dick, explicitly. Might added to curricula?

I also recommend a book: Grunt - by Mary Roach. It is about military science - not guns but the other things, like wounds, hydration, illness, clothes, body armor, packs, etc. Very interesting. It was in our local library. There is a section on dealing with uro-genital wounds which describes amazing work in horrific situations. It also points out (as it does in other sections) how measures to protect and enhance the safety of troops and sailors runs into prejudice by old fart generals and admirals. Trying to get funding for appropriate after wound treatment and counseling - horrified the old toots.

[Jim Watson]

Is an IDPA match allowed to prohibit something that the rules specifically allow?

Local safety rules can trump match rules. I have seen a requirement to keep guns pointed at the berm while reloading and bans on SERPA holsters. There is talk about using the provision to ban AIWB on an individual range basis.

Not that leg shots with hip holsters are unknown, it is just perceived that a crotch or thigh shot is more dangerous.

[rawkguitarist]

I'm ok with appendix carry for others. It's your dick. In fact, shooting yourself like that is probably less likely to shoot me as in the guy who put a 45 ACP into the ground a few inches from my foot on a load and make ready with a 1911 at a match. Or is that person likely to totally miss a holster with a nondrop free gun that killed an SO in Rochester.

On the other hand, when I did a Lone Star course on trauma, we did not do how to deal with staunching the flow of blood from the dick, explicitly. Might added to curricula?

I also recommend a book: Grunt - by Mary Roach. It is about military science - not guns but the other things, like wounds, hydration, illness, clothes, body armor, packs, etc. Very interesting. It was in our local library. There is a section on dealing with uro-genital wounds which describes amazing work in horrific situations. It also points out (as it does in other sections) how measures to protect and enhance the safety of troops and sailors runs into prejudice by old fart generals and admirals. Trying to get funding for appropriate after wound treatment and counseling - horrified the old toots.

What these long lasting wars have brought to the fore is at least some basic stop the bleed skills for EDC guys/gals like us. Interesting point about stopping the bleed of an actual phallus. But a major point - appendix carry doesn't really point the muzzle at the genitals. Since the holster is usually placed right down the crease/junction of the leg and groin. Assuming thats why Caleb/Lone Star doesn't cover that since its a lower probability wound.

It would be nice to get some data on people shooting themselves holstering AIWB. It seems like the dozens of national instructors would have a handle on this having collectively taught thousands of classes. I know this... I see hip carriers point the muzzle right into their hip all the damn time. Cook one off in the right angle, it could be just as dangerous/deadly.

I know we're beating a dead horse. This has taken over for the .45 vs 9mm debate.

[jetfire]

Well.... its already begun. One of my local IDPA clubs already sent out the email stating "for safety reasons" they will not be allowing AIWB. The best evidence the MD could site was the typical almost mythological "shoot yourself in the genitals or even femoral artery"... and listed a single ND in the clubs history. This gentleman is a nice guy and does a lot of work to insure people have *two* matches every month. But this stuff gets really old... he doesn't understand how the holsters are designed and that a simple forward hip reholstering nearly insures the muzzle is never pointed at the body during this process. Nor has he apparently taken the time to learn about it.

If my personal range club pulls this I'll have a respectful talk with the MD. #1 Since USPSA allows AIWB, has anyone shot their "dick off" yet? #2 does carrying AIWB magically induce competitors to forget the 2nd and 3rd rule of firearms safety?

1. What's the name of the club? I'm making it my personal crusade to publicly shame any club that does this.

2. Email the MD back with this line from the new match administration handbook:

M-1.6.7 Clubs must follow all IDPA rules and principles for every match. Clubs having special conditions or safety
rules for equipment or props must obtain a special written exemption from standard IDPA practices and publish these rules publicly in match and club announcements before an IDPA event. The Area Coordinators* facilitate these exemptions with Headquarters.

And ask if they followed this procedure before implementing their local rule, and ask for documentation. If they don't, I'd contact your AC and let them that club so and so is in violation of the new match administration handbook.

Note, they can technically ban AIWB until June 1st, which is when the new rulebook takes effect. So before going nuclear, I'd probably just send them the above with the note "when this goes into effect June 1st you're going to allow AIWB so you can still be a club, right?"

[rawkguitarist]

1. What's the name of the club? I'm making it my personal crusade to publicly shame any club that does this.

2. Email the MD back with this line from the new match administration handbook:


And ask if they followed this procedure before implementing their local rule, and ask for documentation. If they don't, I'd contact your AC and let them that club so and so is in violation of the new match administration handbook.

Note, they can technically ban AIWB until June 1st, which is when the new rulebook takes effect. So before going nuclear, I'd probably just send them the above with the note "when this goes into effect June 1st you're going to allow AIWB so you can still be a club, right?"

I appreciate your passion. But respectfully, I don't want to specifically publicly shame a guy/club that otherwise facilitates a way for people to compete. Suffice it to say it's one of the Oklahoma clubs. I doubt the issue will go forward without quite a bit of feedback.

[jetfire]

I appreciate your passion. But respectfully, I don't want to specifically publicly shame a guy/club that otherwise facilitates a way for people to compete. Suffice it to say it's one of the Oklahoma clubs. I doubt the issue will go forward without quite a bit of feedback.

So don't publicly shame them, DM the information to me and I'll publicly shame them, because fuck them people

[Zincwarrior]

1. What's the name of the club? I'm making it my personal crusade to publicly shame any club that does this.

Sounds like an excellent way to have that club disappear, or quit IDPA matches and just go outlaw. Clubs are often just one harassed MD away from disappearing as it is.

App Carry is a newer thing. It will happen as people get comfortable with it, see it and the hullabaloo dies down. I was literally the same way until I SO'd a person doing it in a nonIDPA match. I was more nervous but they were careful and I became more comfortable running this person.

A slight tangent but do people app carry with CO pistols? Does that ever cause an issue hanging up or anything?

[Artemas2]

Sounds like an excellent way to have that club disappear, or quit IDPA matches and just go outlaw. Clubs are often just one harassed MD away from disappearing as it is.

App Carry is a newer thing. It will happen as people get comfortable with it, see it and the hullabaloo dies down. I was literally the same way until I SO'd a person doing it in a nonIDPA match. I was more nervous but they were careful and I became more comfortable running this person.

A slight tangent but do people app carry with CO pistols? Does that ever cause an issue hanging up or anything?

Yes then no. It carries like any other gun

I got to shoot a local yesterday, but the MD did not want to run the new rules. They did let me keep my light since my OWB holster for my LTT requires it Small victories and all that

As expected there was a lot of talk throughout the day about the new rules, pretty much all positive. Though a concerning number of people seem to have never understood the current SSP rules so I guess the new clarifications were badly needed.

@jetfire, dude you have too much free time, let HQ deal with it. Some of us have few enough places to shoot as it is. Even if the MD is in the wrong, having an affiliated club keeps the real crazies from showing up.