Doubts about .32 ACP

[Baldanders]

Well, if we're inventing new packages, how about 7.5 mm FK in a pocket pistol format?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5_FK

2,000 fps out of a 6 inch barrel! In a snub auto bet it could probably double as a flash-bang grenade :-)

There would probably be a lot more interest in that cartridge if the only gun chambered for it wasn't INSANELY priced.

I guess I should be more interested in the cartridge, but I can think of something better (In my own gun nerd parameters) for any use it makes sense for, with the possible exemption of long-range target/silhouette shooting.

But if the main advantage of the amazing-at-the-time 125 grain .357 SJHP was the blast, 7.5mmFK would have it beat all to hell in a PPK sized gun.

It may not be the Hammer of Thor, but it would have the Thunder and Lightning of Thor!

[RevolverRob]

There would probably be a lot more interest in that cartridge if the only gun chambered for it wasn't INSANELY priced.

I guess I should be more interested in the cartridge, but I can think of something better (In my own gun nerd parameters) for any use it makes sense for, with the possible exemption of long-range target/silhouette shooting.

But if the main advantage of the amazing-at-the-time 125 grain .357 SJHP was the blast, 7.5mmFK would have it beat all to hell in a PPK sized gun.

It may not be the Hammer of Thor, but it would have the Thunder and Lightning of Thor!

I have parable about the foibles of ignoring gun cartridges to relay. It will have to wait until tomorrow it is a bit too long to type out on my phone.

[Half Moon]

There would probably be a lot more interest in that cartridge if the only gun chambered for it wasn't INSANELY priced.

I guess I should be more interested in the cartridge, but I can think of something better (In my own gun nerd parameters) for any use it makes sense for, with the possible exemption of long-range target/silhouette shooting.

But if the main advantage of the amazing-at-the-time 125 grain .357 SJHP was the blast, 7.5mmFK would have it beat all to hell in a PPK sized gun.

It may not be the Hammer of Thor, but it would have the Thunder and Lightning of Thor!

More POWER!!! (grunt, grunt, grunt)

I have to wonder though if an “improved” .32 ACP (other than, god, yes! eliminate the semi-rim) would lose the essential character of the cartridge.

In my head at least, the essence of .32 ACP is a relatively short, ultra-low recoil cartridge well suited to sub-micro pistols and also minimal defense needs for folks with compromised hands or wrists. Any increase in length or power (recoil!) might rapidly push it out of its niche.

A better frontier to explore might be bullet design and feed ramp profiles. We know .32 ACP generally is in the 8” to 10” penetration range in ordinance gelatin. By contrast the .32 S&W Long wadcutter pushing a heavier but much slower bullet is hitting 12” to 15” in ordinance gelatin. Maybe a wadcutter or semi-wadcutter profile and a little more bullet weight (assuming suitable feed ramp geometry can be achieved) might get the .32 ACP a significant performance bump without destroying its niche utility.

Cartridge design is out of my lane and just spit-balling…

[RevolverRob]

Maybe a wadcutter or semi-wadcutter profile and a little more bullet weight (assuming suitable feed ramp geometry can be achieved) might get the .32 ACP a significant performance bump without destroying its niche utility.

I think you've got to go the other way, lighter bullet that is faster.

The trouble is, you can't stack a lot of powder in a .32 ACP case and a heavier bullet will take up even more case room (also potentially resulting in pressure spikes).

The 50-grain Lehigh Cavitator or 55-grain Lehigh Defense bullet offer the advantages of a monolithic bullet that will provide plenty of penetration and the ability to put more powder behind it and bump the velocity up.

This is why I'm leaning towards a monolithic bullet when I load .32 NAA. I'll have plenty of case capacity to drive the bullet fast, but without risking pressure spikes. Unfortunately, Hornady isn't offering the 80-grain FTX bullets in .312" for reloading currently. I've put in an email to see if maybe I can special order them or at least letting them know there is interest out there in the world.

EDIT: Also - just wanted to point this out - the rim diameter of .32 ACP (.358") is basically the same as the bullet diameter of the .380 (.355"). As a result you can't stack more .32s into the same size gun as a .380. And the loaded COAL are virtually identical. The only thing you can do is use a smaller barrel and chamber. But the .32 NAA is really the solution for a .32 ACP "Super" - because it allows more powder, uses standard .32 bullets, and loads to the same OAL.

[willie]

One way to increase velocity is using an undersized lead bullet. Lead bullets move through the barrel with less friction. A smaller diameter reduces resistance. This combination could interact to bring about desired results. But the pistol itself must have a longer dwell time during which barrel and slide remain locked. Heavier hammer spring and heavier recoil spring would slow down the slide's movement to the rear. I surmise that increased powder charge of either Bullseye or Red Dot would achieve desired velocity. Case capacity restricts powder choice. Since overall cartridge length must be maintained within strict limits, one way to increase powder charge is loading a hollow base bullet. The hollow cavity becomes part of the case capacity which then is increased.

This project's outcome will be a louder and harder recoiling .32 which will still be a .32 power wise. I recommend that tinkerers among us experiment. Custom mold builders will provide the mold. Charter Arms and S&W make .32 revolvers in various variations. A good question is can our souped up .32 ACP approach these ballistics? Maybe.

[RevolverRob]

Already got a response from Hornady this morning, ~25 minutes after I sent them an inquiry. They let me know it has been forward to the Directors of Marketing and Sales for consideration (that is the availability of 80-grain FTXs for reloading). Very fast turn around on that one, color me impressed.

[Mike C]

A G42 in .32 NAA seems like a pretty cool idea... Moderately longer barrel, actually shootable with real gun ergos, pocketable under the right circumstances, and potentially more potent than 380 with less recoil.

It would be cool though I will admit I am more interested in the .32NAA in the LCP format as a pocket gun with as much or slightly more energy than the standard .380 rounds (with an expanding round). Something I can use just for running or the outer coat pocked in winter/underwear gun. When I run the numbers it looks like with a 60gr .32 XTP bullet or a Speer GD and 4gr of Vit N320 I can get 1150-1200 out of the 2.75" barrel. If anything it will be fun to tinker with but I think it has the potential I'm looking for in a really small package. Who knows maybe @RevolverRob can talk Hornady into making a spicier version of the 80gr FTX or a 60 XTP in .32 NAA running 1,150 FPS or there about.

[Baldanders]

More POWER!!! (grunt, grunt, grunt)

I have to wonder though if an “improved” .32 ACP (other than, god, yes! eliminate the semi-rim) would lose the essential character of the cartridge.

In my head at least, the essence of .32 ACP is a relatively short, ultra-low recoil cartridge well suited to sub-micro pistols and also minimal defense needs for folks with compromised hands or wrists. Any increase in length or power (recoil!) might rapidly push it out of its niche.

A better frontier to explore might be bullet design and feed ramp profiles. We know .32 ACP generally is in the 8” to 10” penetration range in ordinance gelatin. By contrast the .32 S&W Long wadcutter pushing a heavier but much slower bullet is hitting 12” to 15” in ordinance gelatin. Maybe a wadcutter or semi-wadcutter profile and a little more bullet weight (assuming suitable feed ramp geometry can be achieved) might get the .32 ACP a significant performance bump without destroying its niche utility.

Cartridge design is out of my lane and just spit-balling…

I am skeptical of non-RN .32 ACP loads due to rimlock issues. Flat nose Winchester. 32 is the only round which has caused rimlock in my p32. I am aware OAL is probably the bigger issue, but RNL configured ammo seems to be more trustworthy than other types.

Although PPU 70 grain jhp seems ok in my guns.

My bias is towards heavy-for-caliber bullets, but I think Rob's arguments are convincing.

ETA: I think it is good to keep in the mind the basic strength of the .32ACP is low recoil. It is why it has a place in my house.

[Half Moon]

EDIT: Also - just wanted to point this out - the rim diameter of .32 ACP (.358") is basically the same as the bullet diameter of the .380 (.355"). As a result you can't stack more .32s into the same size gun as a .380. And the loaded COAL are virtually identical. The only thing you can do is use a smaller barrel and chamber. But the .32 NAA is really the solution for a .32 ACP "Super" - because it allows more powder, uses standard .32 bullets, and loads to the same OAL.

For me, the question with .32 NAA is recoil. My understanding is it's closer to .380 than it is to .32 ACP. If so, that takes it from usable with the wife's hand issues to no-go for her.

[RevolverRob]

For me, the question with .32 NAA is recoil. My understanding is it's closer to .380 than it is to .32 ACP. If so, that takes it from usable with the wife's hand issues to no-go for her.

Well, I'll know more when I get my barrel dropped into an LCP. But Mike described the Hornady factory loads as softer than any of the .380s, but yes probably more than a .32 ACP.

That said, yea an all-steel gun or a bigger gun in a .32 NAA would be pretty awesome. I'm thinking if I like the way it works in an LCP, I might get a .380 PPK and have the barrel re-lined to .32 NAA. That would be cheaper than trying to get a barrel fit (since the PPK is a fixed barrel gun). And it seems like it would be a right fun gun to shoot.

Someone should ask Lone Wolf to do a .32 NAA G42 barrel. Not me - since I don't rock out with my Grock out.

Edit @Mike C - have you ordered dies yet? I heard the CH4D dies aren't very good. Trying to decide if I should just email LEE or Hornady for custom dies.