I think I subscribe to the "flip and press" thing even though I've never been to Rogers. Depending on the difficulty of the shot (and that is relative to my current skill level) I'll pay close attention to how the trigger breaks. On those shots I tend to miss if my front sight focus sucks, which sometimes happens if I'm in too much of a hurry.Originally Posted by Ben Stoeger
Thanks Todd! This post comes at the perfect time for me as I'm expecting to take delivery of my first DA/SA pistol this weekend, a P30L V3 9mm. I'll be retiring my SFA pistol as soon as I feel comfortable with the P30 and have finished vetting it for carry. I've been wanting to do this for quite a few months and this post will definitely help me stay focused and dedicated to learning the DA/SA trigger.
In your experience, how critical is it for a new DA/SA shooter to have formal instruction in proper DA/SA trigger manipulation? I am planning on getting some formal training pretty quickly, but am concerned about the potential bad habits/techniques that I may unknowingly pick up while working with the DA/SA in the interim.
That's a great way to put it Suvarov. Gonna file that one away in my head for those times when I might be tempted to fiddle with hardware instead of focusing on my software. Thanks!
If you can't taste the sarcasm, try licking the screen.
Gettin’ old and blind ain’t for sissies. ~ 41Magfan
What do you think is so mysterious about a DA/SA gun?
It's not that I think it's mysterious, it's just that I have zero live fire experience with it. I do feel that Todd's post help to demystify it a bit for me, but I would like to avoid having to "unlearn" bad habits that might develop in the vacuum of solo training.
I'm actually very stoked to learn a DA/SA trigger and don't see myself going back to SFA at all. I've already made a mental commitment to this new platform so I think I'll be just fine. But, I'm also a "resource constrained" guy and would rather not waste time & money undoing bad habits that I may be able to prevent in the first place. Trying not to over-think things here, but I also don't want to miss things too. Make sense?
If you can't taste the sarcasm, try licking the screen.
Gettin’ old and blind ain’t for sissies. ~ 41Magfan
I'm not Todd, but I think I can comment here:
Formal instruction from an instructor that knows how to run DA/SA is obviously the best. For me, I didn't have that. The instruction I received in the USMC was staging......after throwing shots due to that, I decided there must be a better way. I kinda just figured out on my own that a continuous pull is the best method for DA.
The way I did it was to just never stop pulling the trigger and let it surprise me. When I introduced someone to a continuous DA pull, that's all I really needed to say in order for it to "click" for them. Within 30 minutes I took a 105lbs dainty little girl with her Beretta from not being able to hit 8" circles reliably at 5 yards, to reliably hitting 2" circles at 5 yards. Another thing is to not let it take too long of a pull....with a two-handed thumbs forward grip, I'm rock solid and so I can take as long as I want to pull the DA trigger. One handed, however, needs to take no more than a second for the trigger pull from start to finish otherwise the weight of the DA trigger starts to mess with my finger/hand muscles. You'll find your own limits when you start playing around with it.
I think SA is harder for most people to learn, honestly. The trigger break causes people to anticipate. For that, if you find yourself throwing shots out of anticipation (look for low-left shots if your right handed), just say to yourself "front sight....trigger press" over and over. Every time you say "front sight", make sure you're focusing on the front sight. Every time you say "trigger press," apply just a hair more pressure on the trigger. Rinse and repeat until the gun goes boom, and it should surprise you when it does. I figured that little technique out on my own, and my habits of mashing the trigger disappeared pretty quickly. As you get more time on the SA, you'll naturally develop a faster trigger break with the same control as when you started out ultra-slow. You'll also be able to combine both tasks of front sight focus and trigger press at the same time....but I've always found that when starting out it's much easier to perform necessary tasks alone before combining them, hence doing A and then B over and over until A...B become AB as one. When trying to help out Marines who were in danger of UNQ'ing, this always helped them; they would be overwhelmed by everything at once, rather than mastering one thing, and then mastering the other, and then putting them together.
So, that's what I did. It worked. It's worked for others that I've helped out. It might not be the most efficient method for teaching it, and Todd should be able to comment (which I'd like to hear). I'm sure he's got some pretty cool stuff to teach trigger control.
I think if you just treat it like any other gun (except you have to decock it when you are done blasting stuff and then holster) you will be fine. There isn't a lot in the way of special techniques that is going to help you. You shouldn’t need to change the location of your finger on the trigger or anything like that. You just press the trigger straight back for every shot without regard to the weight or the length of the pull. That is all there is to it.
Since you are resource constrained you are probably going to do a lot of dryfire. One trick I have learned for a DA/SA gun is to draw and dryfire the gun DA, and then to simulate the SA you let the trigger forward after the DA “shot” but not enough to reengage the trigger again. After that, just press the trigger straight back into the frame to simulate a SA press. You won’t get the same resistance but I think it is better than nothing.
Thanks for the input TGS. Actually, in preparation for my new P30L I started consciously focusing on doing just this with my current SFA pistol (XD40) during both live & dry fire. Granted, it's hardly the same thing and each trigger is miles apart in feel, but i was really trying to just make my brain make my trigger finger pull through in a continuous motion. Just hoping that it will translate somewhat once I'm running an actual DA/SA trigger.
If you can't taste the sarcasm, try licking the screen.
Gettin’ old and blind ain’t for sissies. ~ 41Magfan
Thanks Ben! Yeah, pretty sure there's a lot more dry fire in my future. But, I did make this move to 9mm from .40 so I could afford more live fire. I'll definitely try that technique for the SA portion of dry fire. I definitely plan on doing just like Todd mentioned: DA first shot, every time, all the time. It just seems to make sense.
Thank you again for the advice.
If you can't taste the sarcasm, try licking the screen.
Gettin’ old and blind ain’t for sissies. ~ 41Magfan
It is the reverse for me.
With my CZ shadow, shooting has never been easier! It is effortless for me.
But with a glock, maybe its overtravel, i am struggling just to have a decent group/hits.
I think it's beneficial to have an instructor who at least "accepts" DA/SA guns, for lack of a better term. An instructor who wants to spend class time telling you that the gun is holding you back is not going to give you the best result. Will you still learn stuff? Sure. But it's not the same.
My firearms teaching career started, as it does for many, with CCW classes. I was part of the NRA Range's "Senior Firearms Instructors" aka SFI and we taught a class each month. The class included one hour of one-on-one range time for each student. Of all the instructors, I was the only one who carried and competed with a DA/SA gun. The head instructor, during his shooting lecture, would even tell students that a DA/SA gun is harder to shoot and less effective and just generally icky. New shooters trying to learn their DA/SA guns with the other instructors who didn't understand how to run a DA/SA gun tended to struggle... a lot. The students who ended up with me passed our informal shooting program without a hitch. That's not because I was an awesome instructor, it's because I knew how to operate the gun properly and I spent our time telling them how to shoot instead of telling them to buy a Glock.
I've taken many, many classes from instructors who didn't appreciate DA/SA guns. They were still good instructors and good classes. But I learned the most about the actually shooting part from folks like Langdon who really knew what they were doing with a DA/SA gun in their hands.
Reply With Quote