General Thoughts on DA/SA Pistols

[Suvorov]

This is a great writeup! Thanks for giving us students of the DA/SA system something encouraging. I personally have come to really like the DA/SA system. I recently shot my first PPC match with my 92G Elite and I was frankly amazed at how well I did. I was the only guy there with a TDA auto and the only guys with SFAs that beat me were the ones who were better shots than I was.

My experience trying to master the Beretta (and to a lesser extent the Sig) has always been that the DA pull can be every bit as accurate as the follow up SA pulls. During weapons qualification with M9s one of the things that would always get me in the face of the so called "instructor" was when he told my soldiers to "throw away" that first shot. And with that, trying to get the folks to follow Army standards during qualification and fire that first shot DA was near impossible. Oddly many of the same officers and NCOs who advocated such buffoonery would have an aneurism if I suggested the first few pushups on the PT test could be done on you knees. Oh well, that is a horse that I have beaten to death far too many times.

In my opinion, in the operation world of LE/Mil/SD, good training is far more important that the latest and greatest gun and fire control system. Sadly, the first 2 and to a large extend the 3rd is driven by folks that want the best results for the least amount of time and that will always cause them to search for the better mouse trap when learning how to hunt mice is the first thing they need to focus on. In the world of competition, where guys are all at the top of their game and winners are determined by the slightest nuances in performance, then there may truly be a better gun. That said, yours, Langton's, and Ben Stoger's performance would indicate that even that issue isn't settled.

[Cecil Burch]

Thank you for this thread Todd. It's very helpful for guys like me who do shoot better with a DA/SA, but have to listen to "helpful" lectures from other shooters how if I only went to that perfect pistol from Austria (or similar), I would be sooooo much better off.

One question - do you find that having a DA/SA guy in a class full of SFA guns has a drag effect on instruction? What I mean is, does having that different guy in class make things difficult for the others? I don't want to show up for a AFHF with my 2022 and be the one who requires you to alter how you teach (i.e. different range command - "decock and holster"). I will already be self conscious enough since I will most likely be the least accomplished shooter as it is!

[ToddG]

I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but

Please start a different thread for questions that are specifically not DA/SA-related.

[ToddG]

One question - do you find that having a DA/SA guy in a class full of SFA guns has a drag effect on instruction?

No. Basic technique is basic technique. Beyond that, a Glock is as different from an M&P as it is from your SIG.

[jlw]

I carried an issued S&W 4006 on duty for seven years prior to the agency switching to Glocks. The academy was my first truly formal training with a pistol, and I was still carrying it when I went to my first instructor level course years later.

I think all of this time with the 4006 plays into my never having been able to get fully comfortable with the 1911 trigger. I know it is "lighter and crisper" than many other triggers, I like having some take-up or a longer travel on that first shot.

[David Armstrong]

I carry my Glock because I have near total belief in its reliability and I've spent 20 years learning it inside and out. Having said that, if I had to give up my Glock I could and would go back to my DA/SA S&W Mdl 39 without any real concern. I learned to work the DA with a revolver and had no trouble transitioning to DA/SA. I do find, just like with all things, there are DA triggers and then there are DA triggers. I like the PPK but never could get happy with the DA pull on it.

[Jac]

Thanks for writing this up, Todd. I never really had any exposure to TDAs before finding your site; it's been nice learning about them (and seeing what can be done with them).

Though I'm still second-guessing my recent Glock purchase a bit, it probably is the best way for me to start becoming proficient with a pistol; once I've got more experience, though, I'm going to look hard again at a double action. Especially now that I've got a kid, I like some of the added safety aspects. (She will be tought gun safety from a *very* early age, of course, just like I was, but every little bit helps.)

And I like the idea of DA skills translating to any pistol I happen to use.

[DocGKR]

As background, when I was commissioned in 1986, we used the 1911--it was the first pistol I ever seriously shot or trained with. A few years later I went through the Police Academy with a Beretta 92F and also used S&W revolvers. At my first PD I primarily carried an S&W 4566 on duty (safety-on) and S&W 3913 off-duty. Later, at a different larger agency that issued P226's, I went to through the SWAT 1911 transition class and ended up using 1911's as my primary duty pistol for many years. Shortly after 9/11, I was re-introduced to 9 mm Glocks and began using them a lot, followed by M&P's in the late 2000's.

In the past 25 years, the three biggest handgun problems I have seen in the LE world are guys failing to decock DA/SA pistols when re-holstering, ND's with Glocks, and poorly thought-out 1911's that failed to run reliably.

DA/SA is certainly quite "shootable" given good training and adequate practice. However, as practice time becomes less available, I am able to retain my shooting skills longer when using a SFA or SA pistol than when using a DA/SA. For me, the best of all worlds is an SFA pistol like the M&P that also has an ergonomic manual safety.

[Ben Stoeger]

If I could throw one thing in here (because I see people struggle with it so often)…

I think lots of the problem with the DA trigger throw comes from people having complicated techniques. The whole prep the trigger by pulling it right to where it will break and then breaking the shot thing works just fine when you don’t have a time element… but that technique isn’t very great at speed in my experience. If you just practice to pull the trigger right on through I think you will be faster and more accurate, even when shooting 30 yards or whatever.

[shootist26]

If I could throw one thing in here (because I see people struggle with it so often)…

I think lots of the problem with the DA trigger throw comes from people having complicated techniques. The whole prep the trigger by pulling it right to where it will break and then breaking the shot thing works just fine when you don’t have a time element… but that technique isn’t very great at speed in my experience. If you just practice to pull the trigger right on through I think you will be faster and more accurate, even when shooting 30 yards or whatever.

highly agree. I found my DA accuracy and speed with my Beretta went way up after I stopped trying to stage or prep the trigger. I now think of it as a rolling trigger and perform a smooth straight pull back all in one motion.