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Thread: General Thoughts on DA/SA Pistols

  1. #71
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    "I also strongly believe in the weapon retention advantage given by an on-safe handgun."
    This! I personally have twice witnessed officers' lives potentially saved when another person gained control of an officer's pistol, but the engaged manual safety prevented the weapon from firing--I don't like to think about the outcome if the pistols involved had been a Glock, Sig, XD, revolver, etc...

  2. #72
    First off: Thanks for starting this discussion, it has to be one of the best I've seen/read in a long time...

    Personally, after having gone back to shooting/training with a Glock again for the last few months (coming from DA/SA CZ's), I think I'm starting to realize that I might just be one of those people whom DA/SA's offer advantages, and very much miss a lot of the ability or confidence to place shots as "surgically" as I used to with the sweet SA stroke.

    In my experience, it seems to me that how your brain interprets the shooting process has got a lot to do with it; some guys might think mastering a single kind of pull is "the way", while it seems in my case that having the first DA pull be a very deliberate act, then followed by the far more forgiving crisp and light SA pulls may work better for me. I think I tend to look at it as: "after that first shot, we're on easy street"...

    As an aside, I very much favor the traditional CZ non-decocker, safety-only DA/SA action... Guess my brain thinks being able to safety the gun in it's optimal "shooting-mode" makes the most sense, but at the same time, having to manually lower the hammer back in to DA-mode (and having little/no room for error) has programmed me to be very deliberate and safe when re-holstering a pistol, regardless of what type of action-type I'm shooting.

  3. #73
    Site Supporter cclaxton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    This! I personally have twice witnessed officers' lives potentially saved when another person gained control of an officer's pistol, but the engaged manual safety prevented the weapon from firing--I don't like to think about the outcome if the pistols involved had been a Glock, Sig, XD, revolver, etc...
    This is a really valuable piece of wisdom. I never did think about someone else grabbing my gun and then trying to shoot it at me....and if they are not used to a manual safety, that buys me valuable time to deal with the situation. On the other hand, they might be astute enough to switch it off, but every manual safety is a bit different, so I think the net benefit is still there.

    Thanks for the valuable wisdom and saving those lives sounds like enough of a reason to use manual safeties if we are sufficiently trained to use them.

    CC

  4. #74
    Site Supporter Suvorov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    This! I personally have twice witnessed officers' lives potentially saved when another person gained control of an officer's pistol, but the engaged manual safety prevented the weapon from firing--I don't like to think about the outcome if the pistols involved had been a Glock, Sig, XD, revolver, etc...
    Was this with Beretta and Smith 3rd Gen or with 1911 style pistols?

    I know you are and advocate of the M&P with safety, is this the primary reason?

    Todd - how much of this opposition to using the slide mounted safeties is due to "group think" and how much is due to issues some people have physically operating the controls?

  5. #75
    We are diminished
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suvorov View Post
    Todd - how much of this opposition to using the slide mounted safeties is due to "group think" and how much is due to issues some people have physically operating the controls?
    The complaints with slide mounted safeties are well founded and well documented. When I worked at Beretta, I always opted for 'G' (decocker only, no manual safety) variants to avoid the problem. I gave up the benefit of a manually safety, but I was unlikely to carry the guns on-safe anyway because of the fumble factor when disengaging especially for someone with short thumbs like mine. Carrying concealed, the manual safety is less of a must-have for me at least in terms of weapons retention.

  6. #76
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    Thinking about this thread, I took my 3913 out to the range yesterday. I was sort of informally working on longer range shooting, 20-25 yards, just trying to keep everything on a paper plate. With my Glock, if I concentrate enough I'll keep most of them in, but tend to pull left alot (goes without saying that my long range shooting needs LOTS of work).
    On a whim I load 5 in the 3913. The DA shot was off a few inches right, but the 4 SA shots were in about a 1-1/2" group. This with a gun that I gave maybe 200 rounds through and haven't shot in months. On a paper plate with no real aiming point. That SA pull is like cheating.
    A few follow up mags fired at 3x5's using DA/SA yielded 3-4" groups but off the cards.
    Now to listen to the voice in my head that says "that was slow fire, new trigger feel honeymoon, ignore it" and not the one that's saying "Dude, get that DA shot down and you've got it made!"

    Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

  7. #77
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    Both were 3rd gen S&W's.

    The manual safety on the M&P offers advantages in three areas:

    1. Weapon retention for uniformed LE officers
    2. AIWB carry
    3. Transitioning from 1911

  8. #78
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    Gary,

    My bacon was dramatically saved many years ago by an on safe 1911.
    Regional Government Sales Manager for Aimpoint, Inc. USA
    Co-owner Hardwired Tactical Shooting (HiTS)

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