Nostalgia or simple reality? Configurations and accessories

[ASH556]

My principle for starting this thread was more predicated on the mid-late 00's having been a sweet spot in the AR world, the industry having jumped the shark a bit since then, and now dialing things back a bit. NOT a call to KISS or Irons only, or "how basic can we make a carbine." THAT will quickly reveal itself to be an exercise in futility once you introduce speed, small targets, and movement.

Case in point, I was all-in on the KISS front from 2004-2011. The pic below was my carbine. All Colt upper, 14.5" M4 barrel on a Colt A2 upper (from a 6520), Colt FA BCG, 18T AAC Phantom pinned/welded by Noveske. It had a VTAC sling, a Trijicon front sight post, and a Surefire M500AB forend light. No fancy triggers to fail, no battery powered optics to fail, simple, reliable, rugged....and SLOW.



I took it to a carbine match expecting to do well and came in almost last. Now, there were some good shooters there and I wasn't nearly as good as I thought I was, but WOW! Turns out things like dot sights and triggers really can enhance performance; especially for a shooter who knows what he's doing. This match had a VTAC barricade, obscured targets, small scoring zones, and no-shoots everywhere. it was NOT your typical 3gn type "blaze a huge piece of cardboard at 7yds" type match.

Now, static shooting, sure you can make irons and stuff work. But, you move, the target moves, you have to go fast, obscured target, etc...you'll do much better with a dot than irons.

But, this thread is more about "more isn't always better past a point." Sure lighter handguards are better, but not at the cost of fragility. LPVO's are nice, but when it's the cost of 3 or 4 Aimpoint micros, and you still have an offset microdot, it's wise to maybe take a step back and see if it really makes the most sense for your use.

[Casual Friday]

My principle for starting this thread was more predicated on the mid-late 00's having been a sweet spot in the AR world, the industry having jumped the shark a bit since then, and now dialing things back a bit. NOT a call to KISS or Irons only, or "how basic can we make a carbine." THAT will quickly reveal itself to be an exercise in futility once you introduce speed, small targets, and movement.

Case in point, I was all-in on the KISS front from 2004-2011. The pic below was my carbine. All Colt upper, 14.5" M4 barrel on a Colt A2 upper (from a 6520), Colt FA BCG, 18T AAC Phantom pinned/welded by Noveske. It had a VTAC sling, a Trijicon front sight post, and a Surefire M500AB forend light. No fancy triggers to fail, no battery powered optics to fail, simple, reliable, rugged....and SLOW.



I took it to a carbine match expecting to do well and came in almost last. Now, there were some good shooters there and I wasn't nearly as good as I thought I was, but WOW! Turns out things like dot sights and triggers really can enhance performance; especially for a shooter who knows what he's doing. This match had a VTAC barricade, obscured targets, small scoring zones, and no-shoots everywhere. it was NOT your typical 3gn type "blaze a huge piece of cardboard at 7yds" type match.

Now, static shooting, sure you can make irons and stuff work. But, you move, the target moves, you have to go fast, obscured target, etc...you'll do much better with a dot than irons.

But, this thread is more about "more isn't always better past a point." Sure lighter handguards are better, but not at the cost of fragility. LPVO's are nice, but when it's the cost of 3 or 4 Aimpoint micros, and you still have an offset microdot, it's wise to maybe take a step back and see if it really makes the most sense for your use.

99.9% of the people who read the thread knew your intentions.

I'm sure a lot of us have done our time on the KISS principle, only to find that it's an endless mental exercise as well, just on the opposite end of the spectrum. On one of our local firearms forums there was a KISS rifle thread a while back and like most if not all others, it turned into a real soup sandwich. For one, there really isn't a solid definition as to what a KISS rifle is. One guy even argued that a Magpul sling with the quick adjuster doohickey didn't fit the KISS criteria and everyone should just run a surplus IDF sling. Quality rifle, BUIS, red dot, sling, and a light are what I consider the bare minimum. If you remove any of those, the rifle becomes less practical, not more.

[RevolverRob]

To be fair -

I think it's better if folks go 'overboard' and kit out their rifles with everythang and then dial it back when they actually use them. Is chasing the new hotness/new sexy the right thing to do? Not really. BUT it's better than being stuck with, "I was a Marine and they gave me an ACOG and I took it off and threw it away, because Marines are rifleMEN and real men use sights." (An actual quote from a former co-worker of mine who was deployed to Iraq in the 2008'ish time frame).

Going overboard and scaling back, at least means you're going to get all the lumens, optics, etc from the beginning.

[Sanch]

See my avatar.

To be honest, my lane is cars much more than guns. I feel the same way, though. Cars were at a high point in the late '90s and early '00s. The really awesome stuff came out and was good by around 2005.

I think I'm an old fuddy duddy because my early 00s car is great and I dont want a new car. I hate infotainment systems. I hate the spying they can do on you. I hate the complexity of using them. I hate that if they break I cant fix them short of replacing the entire $1k+ unit.

My early 00s car has electric windows, and the HVAC system is controlled by a manual knob that I turn. Do I want it colder? I turn it up. Do I want it warmer? I turn it down. When I'm in a new car I don't know what temperature I want to set the number thermostat to. Its not a house, and I'm usually in the car for short trips before it has time to perfectly optimize temperature anyway. If the car is really hot I want to make it really cool as fast as possible, so in a new car I have to set the number all the way down but that's a huge PITA compared to just turning a knob 5 clicks right.

I want nothing to do with infotainment systems that give me a "dont drive while texting" warning for the first 20 seconds every time I start the car. Nor that I can't pair blue tooth while the car is driving. I'm usually only in newer cars when I travel and rent one, and then as I'm waiting in the car in the airport drive through checkout, I try to pair my cell phone, it takes 1 minute to pair between pressing all of the buttons and 55 seconds into the minute, the car in front of me moves up so I have to move up another 10 feet and pairing stops. No pairing while driving. Restart the 60 second process.

The older I get, the more I hate technology. And I'm "only" about 40 years old. Jeez!

[HCM]

To be fair -

I think it's better if folks go 'overboard' and kit out their rifles with everythang and then dial it back when they actually use them. Is chasing the new hotness/new sexy the right thing to do? Not really. BUT it's better than being stuck with, "I was a Marine and they gave me an ACOG and I took it off and threw it away, because Marines are rifleMEN and real men use sights." (An actual quote from a former co-worker of mine who was deployed to Iraq in the 2008'ish time frame).

Going overboard and scaling back, at least means you're going to get all the lumens, optics, etc from the beginning.

[karmapolice]

I think I'm an old fuddy duddy because my early 00s car is great and I dont want a new car. I hate infotainment systems. I hate the spying they can do on you. I hate the complexity of using them. I hate that if they break I cant fix them short of replacing the entire $1k+ unit.

My early 00s car has electric windows, and the HVAC system is controlled by a manual knob that I turn. Do I want it colder? I turn it up. Do I want it warmer? I turn it down. When I'm in a new car I don't know what temperature I want to set the number thermostat to. Its not a house, and I'm usually in the car for short trips before it has time to perfectly optimize temperature anyway. If the car is really hot I want to make it really cool as fast as possible, so in a new car I have to set the number all the way down but that's a huge PITA compared to just turning a knob 5 clicks right.

I want nothing to do with infotainment systems that give me a "dont drive while texting" warning for the first 20 seconds every time I start the car. Nor that I can't pair blue tooth while the car is driving. I'm usually only in newer cars when I travel and rent one, and then as I'm waiting in the car in the airport drive through checkout, I try to pair my cell phone, it takes 1 minute to pair between pressing all of the buttons and 55 seconds into the minute, the car in front of me moves up so I have to move up another 10 feet and pairing stops. No pairing while driving. Restart the 60 second process.

The older I get, the more I hate technology. And I'm "only" about 40 years old. Jeez!

I hate what most people see as required modern conveniences but to me those are like the round counter thing from shit, fingerprint locks on guns etc. Now 4wd truck with locking diffs is like a good carbine with a food lpvo, capable. I have some preferred older stuff, like for a red dot on a rifle I prefer a T1 over the newer Comp M5 for no real reason but wouldn’t be mad with a Comp M5.

[Yung]

I am going to have to eat my words that I said in this thread. I ordered one of those Super Duty rifles a couple hours ago.

It is just the base gun and I don't anticipate putting anything new or different from what NH Shooter and JRB talked about, other than a front sight since there is no fixed base anymore, but still.

[NH Shooter]

I am going to have to eat my words that I said in this thread. I ordered one of those Super Duty rifles a couple hours ago.

It is just the base gun and I don't anticipate putting anything new or different from what NH Shooter and JRB talked about, other than a front sight since there is no fixed base anymore, but still.

Congrats on your purchase!

For a bit of clarity, I am all-in on the latest & greatest enhancements that improve reliability, functionality and overall quality. My comments in general on this topic are solely intended for all the stuff we attach to the rifle.

Good luck, looking forward to seeing what you do with yours!

[Moshjath]

I was issued and used an ACOG in Afghanistan, and it did alright. I would have far preferred to have my personal Leupold MK6 though. We were in an AO that we would see multiple engagements from 30-300 meters...then a week later you’d be in an engagement with multiple PKMs at 600-900m. I don’t really care about the precise, superb balance of an M16A1 when compared to my M4 with optic, Surefire scout, and PEQ15, but based on our needs at the time I would have appreciated tech that makes it easier to acquire well camouflaged fighting positions at distance or assist with observation and PID of possible threats at moderate distances, while with the twist of a dial has most of the utility of a RDS at close distances.

[DamonL]

ASH556 good to see you back posting again.

I think configurations and accessories are based on ones experiences and uses and that is unique to each person.

As an example, I took an Urban Rifle class from Clint Smith in the 90's. Most students, including myself used iron sights. A few had red dot sights. The only equipment I added afterwards was a white light because we shot low-light and no light exercises. Early 00's, I took a Pat Roger's carbine course. I was the only person in the class without a dot sight. I added a dot sight after that.

My experience is from taking classes and learning from the different scenarios I am put in. Others have different experiences that include mil or LE experiences that showed what they needed on their carbine, such as a LPVO.

I think the other thing that drives configurations and accessories is the Internet, but that is another story.