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Thread: Meanwhile in science news.

  1. #1
    Gray Hobbyist Wondering Beard's Avatar
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    Meanwhile in science news.

    While the virus, and its attending science, occupies plenty of space in our heads and much of our time, I still go around reading various articles about scientific discoveries (or mysteries) that, for whatever reason, interest me at the moment, even if I don't really understand it all.

    There is plenty of other, really exciting and really important stuff happening in science that has nothing to do with COVID 19, and lots of that stuff is very cool. So I wanted to start a thread where people could post, and discuss if they wish, new/interesting/cool happenings in science in any field.

    My first offering: Hunter-gatherers developed culturally distinct cuisines 7,000 years ago

    The interesting bit, to me at least:""Our study suggests that culinary practices were not influenced by environmental constraints but rather were likely embedded in some long-standing culinary traditions and cultural habits," said co-author Blandine Courel, scientist at the British Museum."
    " La rose est sans pourquoi, elle fleurit parce qu’elle fleurit ; Elle n’a souci d’elle-même, ne demande pas si on la voit. » Angelus Silesius
    "There are problems in this universe for which there are no answers." Paul Muad'dib

  2. #2
    Gray Hobbyist Wondering Beard's Avatar
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    @Trooper224 , I think this is right up your alley, or forge as the case may be ;-)


    Scientists Have Recreated Ancient Battles to Solve Debate Over Ancient Bronze Swords

    "For example, one of the marks on the replica swords that matched the recovered Bronze Age originals was made by a technique known as 'versetzen' in German, or 'displacement' – locking blades to try and control an enemy's weapon."
    " La rose est sans pourquoi, elle fleurit parce qu’elle fleurit ; Elle n’a souci d’elle-même, ne demande pas si on la voit. » Angelus Silesius
    "There are problems in this universe for which there are no answers." Paul Muad'dib

  3. #3
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wondering Beard View Post
    While the virus, and its attending science, occupies plenty of space in our heads and much of our time, I still go around reading various articles about scientific discoveries (or mysteries) that, for whatever reason, interest me at the moment, even if I don't really understand it all.

    There is plenty of other, really exciting and really important stuff happening in science that has nothing to do with COVID 19, and lots of that stuff is very cool. So I wanted to start a thread where people could post, and discuss if they wish, new/interesting/cool happenings in science in any field.

    My first offering: Hunter-gatherers developed culturally distinct cuisines 7,000 years ago

    The interesting bit, to me at least:""Our study suggests that culinary practices were not influenced by environmental constraints but rather were likely embedded in some long-standing culinary traditions and cultural habits," said co-author Blandine Courel, scientist at the British Museum."
    Wow, what a radical over-interpretation of the conclusions by the media coverage of that scientific article. The authors wrote in the actual article:

    We argue that the observed sub-regional variation in pottery use cannot simply be explained by differences in the environmental settings and resource availability. For example, while faunal assemblages from Narva culture sites demonstrate that both terrestrial and aquatic ecotones were exploited [71,104–106], pottery appears to have been almost exclusively used for the processing of aquatic resources. Instead hunter–gatherer pottery use was under strong cultural control. These differences can, therefore, be crudely described as sub-regional ‘cuisines'. From an anthropological perspective, this observation is perhaps of no surprise, as all documented hunter–gatherers practice some form of culturally specific custom for food preparation and consumption, often deploying specific material culture for defined tasks [107–109]. Whether such ‘culinary traits' can be used to help understand the dispersal dynamics of pottery technology is debatable. Only through detailed analysis of the raw materials and manufacturing techniques can we test whether ceramic form follows function.

    Perhaps a more productive interpretive approach is to situate pottery use in a broader culinary historical context that must have included other food preparation methods such as roasting, grilling, drying and fermenting. Mid-Holocene hunter–gatherers were influenced both by their own ‘traditional’ aceramic culinary practices and through interaction with other ceramic using groups they came into contact with. So while there is scant evidence that the environment or food procurement strategies changed with the advent of pottery, culinary ideas for combining and cooking foodstuffs in ceramic vessels were undoubtedly mutable with adoption motivated by prior beliefs, for example, concerning cooking performance and efficacy or equally notions of novelty and prestige. Following the widespread uptake of ceramic production among aceramic hunter–gatherers, the use of the new technology remained, at a sub-regional scale, strongly influenced by the surrounding foodscape and pre-existing culinary practices.
    The 'culturally different cuisines' - is kind of a stretch. They noted that each group prepared localized food stuffs in specific ways aceramically and then with the introduction of ceramics, new combinations of cooking were formed. STILL it's not as if each hunter-gather group said, "We're only going to prep 'Chinese' - instead it was more, "We're going to prep what we find locally in our own way." - Think more like...taking an American food recipe and adding Spanish mixes. It's distinct and not distinct, simultaneously.

    The timing doesn't strike me as particularly odd either, though it pre-dates full-blown domestication of animals and crops, we certainly known that food preparation was well and truly occurring long before 7,000 years ago. Neanderthals weren't eating raw meat (all the time, at least).

    Edit: Still it's a cool study from the perspective of using mass-spec analysis of the inside of pots to determine what was being cooked. I think a cool follow-on analysis would be trying some like laser-ablating the various cooked in layers and treating a pot rather like the sedimentary layers of a pit. What was cooked first/middle/last and how that potentially reflects nomadic trends and/or resource trends on a seasonal or annual scale. Would be SUPER COOL.

  4. #4
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  5. #5
    Site Supporter Trooper224's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wondering Beard View Post
    @Trooper224 , I think this is right up your alley, or forge as the case may be ;-)


    Scientists Have Recreated Ancient Battles to Solve Debate Over Ancient Bronze Swords

    "For example, one of the marks on the replica swords that matched the recovered Bronze Age originals was made by a technique known as 'versetzen' in German, or 'displacement' – locking blades to try and control an enemy's weapon."
    I've seen that. Honestly, I had a bit of a "well, duh" moment. The article mentions how "soft" bronze is and how it's been assumed these weapons were ceremonial because of it. This is incorrect. Unlike brass, bronze can be work hardened with a hammer and this was done to period weapons to give them a functional, workable edge. In fact, iron really didn't do any better than bronze. It replaced bronze because it was a more plentiful material. The real advancement didn't occur until steel was developed from iron carburization. Bronze weapons are very cool and I've always wanted to add a few to my collection.

    The frustrating thing about these theories is, they're postulated by people who often know nothing about weapons. There are very few dedicated hoplologists working in the field of archaeology and the study of ancient weapons is actively discouraged in academia. So, when they finally go to someone who's actually studied the topic for years and act like they've made some kind of breakthrough, well, it's a bit eye roll inducing.
    We may lose and we may win, but we will never be here again.......

  6. #6
    Gray Hobbyist Wondering Beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trooper224 View Post
    I've seen that. Honestly, I had a bit of a "well, duh" moment. The article mentions how "soft" bronze is and how it's been assumed these weapons were ceremonial because of it. This is incorrect. Unlike brass, bronze can be work hardened with a hammer and this was done to period weapons to give them a functional, workable edge. In fact, iron really didn't do any better than bronze. It replaced bronze because it was a more plentiful material. The real advancement didn't occur until steel was developed from iron carburization. Bronze weapons are very cool and I've always wanted to add a few to my collection.

    The frustrating thing about these theories is, they're postulated by people who often know nothing about weapons. There are very few dedicated hoplologists working in the field of archaeology and the study of ancient weapons is actively discouraged in academia. So, when they finally go to someone who's actually studied the topic for years and act like they've made some kind of breakthrough, well, it's a bit eye roll inducing.
    I was thinking along the same lines.

    Still, it's nice that people are doing tests that get published in academia instead of just theorizing without any understanding or experience.
    " La rose est sans pourquoi, elle fleurit parce qu’elle fleurit ; Elle n’a souci d’elle-même, ne demande pas si on la voit. » Angelus Silesius
    "There are problems in this universe for which there are no answers." Paul Muad'dib

  7. #7
    Site Supporter Trooper224's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wondering Beard View Post
    I was thinking along the same lines.

    Still, it's nice that people are doing tests that get published in academia instead of just theorizing without any understanding or experience.
    Very true and I don't mean to come off like a grump about the subject.
    We may lose and we may win, but we will never be here again.......

  8. #8
    Gray Hobbyist Wondering Beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trooper224 View Post
    Very true and I don't mean to come off like a grump about the subject.
    Academia makes academicians grumpy, so ... :-)
    " La rose est sans pourquoi, elle fleurit parce qu’elle fleurit ; Elle n’a souci d’elle-même, ne demande pas si on la voit. » Angelus Silesius
    "There are problems in this universe for which there are no answers." Paul Muad'dib

  9. #9
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wondering Beard View Post
    While the virus, and its attending science, occupies plenty of space in our heads and much of our time, I still go around reading various articles about scientific discoveries (or mysteries) that, for whatever reason, interest me at the moment, even if I don't really understand it all.

    There is plenty of other, really exciting and really important stuff happening in science that has nothing to do with COVID 19, and lots of that stuff is very cool. So I wanted to start a thread where people could post, and discuss if they wish, new/interesting/cool happenings in science in any field.

    My first offering: Hunter-gatherers developed culturally distinct cuisines 7,000 years ago

    The interesting bit, to me at least:""Our study suggests that culinary practices were not influenced by environmental constraints but rather were likely embedded in some long-standing culinary traditions and cultural habits," said co-author Blandine Courel, scientist at the British Museum."
    Here's a cultural mystery for you. Why did Greenland's Vikings disappear? Probably had to do with culture. They didn't eat fish nor were they fishermen. Very few fish bones have been found by archaeologists. They were hunters and farmers. The colder climate seems to have ended their farming.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...hed-180962119/
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.

  10. #10
    Gray Hobbyist Wondering Beard's Avatar
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    " La rose est sans pourquoi, elle fleurit parce qu’elle fleurit ; Elle n’a souci d’elle-même, ne demande pas si on la voit. » Angelus Silesius
    "There are problems in this universe for which there are no answers." Paul Muad'dib

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