That's an 18 round baseline check for bell curve problems. Cool.Originally Posted by vcdgrips
That's an 18 round baseline check for bell curve problems. Cool.
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This is just so good. I am stealing it for my personal use. I forgot to steal it last time you posted. Thanks for the thought that went into it.
Those are great points. Hardware always trumps software/training discussions as they never threaten our image of ourselves as great warriors. It would be interesting to see degradation in performance due to the virus quarantine. I haven't shot a pistol since October due to a move, needed to get a new permit and the shutdown of the latter. I've tried to keep up a touch with using my SIRT Glock 17. Without a timer, I can hit a 2x2 sticky from the draw with few 'misses' and it seems reasonably quickly but who knows. Training is out for the time being. No matches. I was going to take a IPSC competitor course - not now,
If folks who had a large layoff and had pre and post times on some standard, that would be fascinating to compare.
Those aren't mutually exclusive concepts.
If this isn't stickied in the drills and test sub forum, it should be. A great benchmark for new and "accomplished" shooters.
If you can't pass this consistently, then all the new shinyness ain't gonna help.
I'm so stealing this as part of skills assessment testing for myself and friends and family, also for one of my employee's who likes to shoot, yet kind of flounders around with proficiency. At least he has a VP 9, which is a good start.
I let him use my personal range, I'm going to print this out for him, all he has to do is "do the work"
"And for a regular dude I’m maybe okay...but what I learned is if there’s a door, I’m going out it not in it"-Duke
"Just because a girl sleeps with her brother doesn't mean she's easy..."-Blues
This sounds like a pretty good, simple skill test. The only problem I see is that all five parts are to be shot cold. So it takes five range trips to cycle through one iteration of these. And how do we define "every time" - how many iterations in a row one should pass before answering "yes"?
Running these as the start of a single range session would be much more doable for people who don't get to visit the range very often. (And then do it one-handed, with both the left and right hand?)
Rambling Thoughts on the “VCDGrips Pistolcraft Assessment Tool” VPAT for short.
All joking aside, when I posted those drills, it was to focus a poster on getting past machinations re a belt choice and figuring out how much work needed to be done to be a competent practitioner of the uniquely American Martial art of Pistolcraft.
I stressed the concept of doing each drill COLD because that result is going to be most indicative of ones actual skill on a given day in a given moment. I did not think about them being performed together as a 20-50 round assessment tool. As a non LEO CCW, shooting the drills from concealment with your daily gear was a given. For me that is usually a Glock 35 AIWB.
I suppose that if one could do each one 3x-5x in a row that would “prove” that you had the skill set on demand. I suspect that there would be some considerable warm up going on if you did each one 3x-5x by the time you shot the last drill. Ergo the emphasis on COLD. If you shot each drill just once and you shot the 8 inch plate 8x at 10 yards, that would be 25 rounds total.
I came up with time standards as follows:
1. The teachings of Tom Givens and the video reviews of John Corriea on ASP. 8 inches is a reasonably generous target area the corresponds with the high center chest. 1 shot in 2 secs or less seemed to be dispositive on more than one occasion.
2. The teachings of Todd Louis Green (RIP). I added 50% to my time in class (6.21) and rounded up to 10 which was TLG’s intermediate time IIRC.
3. The drill I start every session with. All Praise to Tom Givens here. Get off the center line, get out of their tunnel vision and get to work. MOVE. The times are again my times (2.35-2.85 depending on caliber/shooting frequency) + 50 ish percent rounded to 4.0.
3. In my direct and vicarious experience, 10 yards is where the wheels really start to come off for many consciously competent shooters.
4. My first shooting mentor (DRS, RIP) liked to end our early practice sessions with a precision exercise. 5 shots, 5 yards touching. If we pulled one, we kept shooting until we had the ragged hole. He penchant for .45 ACP was an advantage in my younger days. I used a credit card for a size reference as it was more forgiving than touching, everybody has one with them, and at 5 yards, not a lot of practical difference between the two potential group sizes.
Your thoughts and feedback are most welcome.
To get back to the hardware aspect, one can “up” hard barrier performance, without changing one’s carry weapon, by selecting ammo such as Federal HST Tactical, which was designed with the intent to perform better against motor vehicle glass, while being a good controlled-expansion antipersonnel JHP. IIRC, 9mm G2 performs very well, in this context, and was a recommended 9mm load, as of early 2016, by Houston PD’s firearms instructors. (That was when I attended a class to re-certify to carry a 1911 as a primary duty pistol.)
With a long gun, there is no mystery. If one can handle the recoil, Federal Truball Penetrator Slugs are the ticket. I managed to acquire a modest, fresh stock of these shortly before the Super Bowl came to Houston, as that was when it was fashionable for radicalized islamists to steal trucks, and mow-down folks at public gatherings. I knew that I was going to be posted at one of the road-blocks, probably Downtown, so I might have been willing to sell a kidney to get these rare Penetrators. A draw-back of shotguns is that they are large. (Shock-wave-ish shotguns are not going to be fun to shoot with powerful slugs.)
Back in the Eighties, my personal solution for engaging opponents inside motor vehicles was the .41 Magnum 175-grain Silver Tip, loaded in my S&W Model 58 duty revolver. Today, we can get good JHPs, for our more-normal service/duty/personal-defense cartridges.
The need to train, for accuracy at speed, however, is so very important. An opponent who is largely concealed inside or beyond a motor vehicle will not present a nice, large B-27 profile.
Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.
Don’t tread on volcanos!
You've come up with an otherwise very good skill test, but like I mentioned if you think about your target audience people might not get to a range that allows them to do these drills very often. This makes it difficult to do all the drills cold, repeatedly. To make this something a beginner shooter is more likely to use as a skill gauge the whole thing needs to be shootable during one range visit. Asking someone how well they perform, repeatedly, on five different cold start drills just isn't very likely to result in an actual answer.
If you insist on using a cold drill as a skill gauge, perhaps paring everything down to "can you score Intermediate or better in F.A.S.T. every time, cold" might be a better approach.
That Guy:
Your points are well taken. Running those drills in sequence at the beginning of a training session 1x each would likely go a long way to assessing the COLD competency of a given shooter while addressing the efficiency/range time availability issues you discuss as well.
I concur that if you were only going to run one drill, the FAST would be the one to do (of the ones I listed) as is "tests" more things at the same time. In that vein, I suppose it is a bit like the "El Presidente" (old school set up of -3 targets set 3 yards apart at 10 yrds) whose genesis was as an assessment tool as well.
https://www.handgunsmag.com/editoria...g-drill/138137
At some point in your training if you have been shooting long enough and performance tracking with a timer- you have a pretty good idea of what you can do on a given day.
I have not shot the 1 shot in 2 sec at 3 yrds drill quite a while. Having said that, I am fairly confident that I can make that time even after a long layoff because I know that my 1st shot time on the 5 shots@ 5yrds drill is well under 2 seconds.
If I can shoot a clean 10 second FAST at 7 yrds, then 5 shots at 5 yrds covered by a credit card and at will hits on an 8 inch plate at 10 yrds, both without time constraints, should be quite doable.
As I said before, the one drill I routinely do cold is the 5 shot @ 5yrds with the step offline so I have years of data on that one re shooting a Glock 9mm v Glock 40 cal and a bit of 1911.45 ACP thrown in.
Finally, please know that I do not think that the drills I outlined for the OP are "the" way, but merely "a" way to gauge some fundamental skill levels.
My core point was never to establish criteria to differentiate shooters as much as it was to say-"STOP" the Ford v. Chevy/Nike v. Adidas/Glock v. Beretta/Wilderness v Cobra buckled back and forth on gear and start shooting and performance tracking with a timer.
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