Elite UFC fighter vs. crazy = stalemate

[Clusterfrack]

Wow, this thread has veered way off course. I wonder if we can return to discussing lessons learned from the fight with the crazy dude?

Maybe anyone with a serious case of Dunning-Kruger can give our well vetted SMEs a chance to comment?

[Totem Polar]

Wow, this thread has veered way off course. I wonder if we can return to discussing lessons learned from the fight with the crazy dude?

Concur. Thread needs less talk about people, and more talk about concepts.

Not that anyone should place great value in my opinion, but here’s a good faith effort:

Concept: grappling is viable under pressure. Smith got handed a complete shit sandwich from out of nowhere. He used his extraordinary grappling skills to both rebound from the deficit Jody mentioned, and contain his highly motivated opponent in place—in so doing, safeguarding himself, his family, and sort of the other dude.

Concept: when you are winning and dominating, you generally want to limit chaos. When you are losing, you’ve got nothing to lose by increasing the chaos (eg. If Bas is positioning to sink an RNC on me, and I can hurl us both through a plate glass window 1-story up, what the heck; 50/50 says we land with him on bottom. Work with me; it’s a hypothetical to illustrate an idea...)
The knife increased chaos, when Smith had the better of the situation.

Concept. Cooper’s principles still work. Smith proved those 7 ideas too.

J
M
O

Ommv; etc.

Just trying to follow my own advice.

[Clusterfrack]

Concur. Thread needs less talk about people, and more talk about concepts.

Not that anyone should place great value in my opinion, but here’s a good faith effort:

Concept: grappling is viable under pressure. Smith got handed a complete shit sandwich from out of nowhere. He used his extraordinary grappling skills to both rebound from the deficit Jody mentioned, and contain his highly motivated opponent in place—in so doing, safeguarding himself, his family, and sort of the other dude.

Concept: when you are winning and dominating, you generally want to limit chaos. When you are losing, you’ve got nothing to lose by increasing the chaos (eg. If Bas is positioning to sink an RNC on me, and I can hurl us both through a plate glass window 1-story up, what the heck; 50/50 says we land with him on bottom. Work with me; it’s a hypothetical to illustrate an idea...)
The knife increased chaos, when Smith had the better of the situation.

Concept. Cooper’s principles still work. Smith proved those 7 ideas too.

J
M
O

Ommv; etc.

Just trying to follow my own advice.

Great points. Another thing I’ve been thinking about is what we default to under pressure. I roll quite a bit with a very skilled SAMBO and BJJ guy, and his defaults are pretty brutal. Lots of ankle and knee destruction, neck cranks, etc.

[perlslacker]

I skimmed this thread and didn't see this posted: https://www.bjjee.com/bjj-news/ufc-a...ling-champion/

So yeah, dude is a BJJ Black Belt and UFC fighter but the guy he was trying to hold down reportedly had some pretty serious wrestling bonafides. Dudes who wrestled in high school are already spastic as fuck on the mat so I can't imagine what happens when you feed some bath salts to a guy who made it to the state championships in high school.

I did enjoy the hot takes about how fighting with rules dulled this guy's edge and almost got him killed on the streets though.

[BehindBlueI's]

Wow, this thread has veered way off course. I wonder if we can return to discussing lessons learned from the fight with the crazy dude?

Maybe anyone with a serious case of Dunning-Kruger can give our well vetted SMEs a chance to comment?

This is now fixed. Side show banter has been culled and merged with the general discussion thread here:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ppy-to-respond

Keep this thread on topic.

[Totem Polar]

Dudes who wrestled in high school are already spastic as fuck on the mat so I can't imagine what happens when you feed some bath salts to a guy who made it to the state championships in high school.

One of the results of this whole bizarre circumstance is that we now have an idea what that looks like.

[45dotACP]

One thing that bothers me about this...a wrestler is a handful for sure. A state level champion wrestler even more so and being hopped up on PCP or being on a psychotic episode and not feeling pain...sure that's gonna be a real handful.

But this guy is a BJJ black belt. Of all the people here who train, I think we all understand that being a BJJ black belt means you've trained for years on how to put someone away. There are layers upon layers to the levels of skill at submission grappling, even at the black belt level, but the skill difference between a BJJ black belt and a high school wrestler...even a very good one...should not pose much of a problem.

There aren't as many BJJ black belts in the world as people think. It's an extremely difficult level of skill to attain. I've known doctors who went for med school for shorter amounts of time.

So what would it have been that made this situation different from something like Matt Serra holding a dude down in a restaurant like he's a temperamental child, or any number of the police officers who have controlled suspects effortlessly with BJJ. Was it the mental state of the intruder? His wrestling background? The mental state of the defender?

Again, to his credit, Smith did hold this dude down and paint the house with his blood, without getting a scratch and without his wife getting kicked in the face. So was it maybe just (as @Clusterfrack mentioned) his default response to hold the dude down and beat that ass? Maybe if the dude busted into Alexei Oleiniks house he'd be asleep and gift wrapped for the cops, or his knee would be torn apart.

I'll reiterate...this was still a victory. And from the looks of it, Smith didn't pay a steep price for it. No physical wounds, no concussions, no broken bones. It would be hard to say if a less skilled fighter would have won, or even if they did, they may not have won without cost or having to use that butcher knife...

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[03RN]

Well, he didn’t kill they guy when he had the knife, so I would imagine he didn’t want to kill him with his bare hands either.

The badguy always gets a vote and nobody is 100% all the time, plus retard/meth strength is a thing (I know it’s not a pc term, but it describes an actual condition) Ask @03RN or police here about fighting edp’s. The idea that somebody is never at risk of getting an ass kicking because they’re a pro fighter is silly, nobody can always be ready to fight all the time.

Im surprised at how many women and scrawny guys work in mental health honestly.

Just the other day everyone was walking on eggshells because a guy who was raised by dogs was pissed.

He bit a staff really bad his last admission.

We were able to calm him down so it was a non event but my right hand is still bruised a swollen after fighting to keep him out of the nurses station.

We are required to restrain with specific techniques and protocol which is fine 90% of the time.

The rest of the time its 30 years of martial arts and the right mentality. "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet"

[03RN]

One thing that bothers me about this...a wrestler is a handful for sure. A state level champion wrestler even more so and being hopped up on PCP or being on a psychotic episode and not feeling pain...sure that's gonna be a real handful.

But this guy is a BJJ black belt. Of all the people here who train, I think we all understand that being a BJJ black belt means you've trained for years on how to put someone away. There are layers upon layers to the levels of skill at submission grappling, even at the black belt level, but the skill difference between a BJJ black belt and a high school wrestler...even a very good one...should not pose much of a problem.

There aren't as many BJJ black belts in the world as people think. It's an extremely difficult level of skill to attain. I've known doctors who went for med school for shorter amounts of time.

So what would it have been that made this situation different from something like Matt Serra holding a dude down in a restaurant like he's a temperamental child, or any number of the police officers who have controlled suspects effortlessly with BJJ. Was it the mental state of the intruder? His wrestling background? The mental state of the defender?

Again, to his credit, Smith did hold this dude down and paint the house with his blood, without getting a scratch and without his wife getting kicked in the face. So was it maybe just (as @Clusterfrack mentioned) his default response to hold the dude down and beat that ass? Maybe if the dude busted into Alexei Oleiniks house he'd be asleep and gift wrapped for the cops, or his knee would be torn apart.

I'll reiterate...this was still a victory. And from the looks of it, Smith didn't pay a steep price for it. No physical wounds, no concussions, no broken bones. It would be hard to say if a less skilled fighter would have won, or even if they did, they may not have won without cost or having to use that butcher knife...

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how many bjj black belts have fought for their lives?

[03RN]

Wow, this thread has veered way off course. I wonder if we can return to discussing lessons learned from the fight with the crazy dude?

Maybe anyone with a serious case of Dunning-Kruger can give our well vetted SMEs a chance to comment?

Ive had to hold on tight and wait for either physical or chemical restraints. 600lbs deadlifts pay off.