I hope there is a civilian version of whatever the armed forces finally settle on for a 6.8 rifle, and that it's priced well and is as good as the AR, just a little bigger. I expect to be disappointed, or perhaps just retired...
^Posted as an alternative to a long bunch of boring musings about why there is not a commercially successful "AR 12" yet.
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Not another dime.
It will be interesting to see where this high-pressure 6.8 round ends up at, and what the guns are like. For the recoil, weight, and bulk of existing 7.62mm ammo, it does make sense that longer ranged, more effective cartridges could be developed. Sig's 6.8 Fury certainlky has my interest. Not being involved in small arms design or professional usage, the new belt-fed guns on display in SHOT looked like real and worthwhile improvements.
The AR has a few undeniable advantages over everything else on the market. Guns benefit from extended periods of engineering enhancements, and more work has been done to improve the AR than anything else. Getting to the modern, highly reliable AR took serious experimentation that other guns aren't ever going to get. The compromises made favor light weight, and it's tough to choose a heavier, less supportable gun that's also likely to be less accurate and less reliable than an equivalent cost AR.
Per the PF Code of Conduct, I have a commercial interest in the StreakTM product as sold by Ammo, Inc.
I had one, briefly, in the 09-10ish timeframe. Took forever to find one, when it got in, it had a string of issues with reliability and accuracy. After the second trip back to the factory for service (both of which required extensive effort on my part to get them to agree to take the gun back in), I sold it, as a steep loss, with full disclosure of what I'd been through. For all I know, when it came back the second time, it was GTG, but I don't have enough time to screw with problem guns.
That experience was what started my growing reluctance to ever acquire "snowflake" guns. Give me something that's close to industry standardized, with easy to get parts, and a well known maintenance program.
It’s hard to overstate the difficulties people experienced dealing with that company.Originally Posted by psalms144.1
#RESIST
My very possibly wrong take is that the AR boom pretty much meant that all the other OS types are pretty much bust right now.
Why spend $2,500 on some kind of proprietary snowflake gun when one can get an AR variant capable of doing the same thing for hundreds less?
"You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
"I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI
I remember reading about these in magazines in the early 2000's. I took a job in Salt Lake City (near Robinson Arms HQ) in the mid 2000's and came across one in a gunshop when I first got there. This was about the time the Magpul Masada was introduced and I wanted to see how that turned out before getting one or the other.
Both of them never came to be much of anything in that time and they both fell off the radar for a long time.
I still like the idea of both but would want to see long term reliability and parts availability before getting one.
I think you are much more possibly right
They're only popular in Canada because they're non-restricted and can be taken anywhere, while ARs are restricted and can only be legally fired at a range.
Even so, the AR is much, much more successful. This was true even when ARs were $2-3000. It's just a better rifle.
As I said in the other thread...lots of bolts that want to unscrew. Terrible barrel mounting system as I recall. Lots of QC issues and lousy customer service. Some ran well but most did not stand up to volume.
Nice concept but you had to be prepared to deal with headaches. I never was. For my oddball rifle, I bought a VZ58 for $650 and shot an XCR worth of ammo through it instead. Still have it. Still runs like a top. I don't know anyone who took an XCR to a single carbine class and kept it afterwards.
I know lots of VZs that have ten thousand rounds on them and I don't know if I know anyone who sold his.
I have a good friend who used to work and do some training at a range back East. They had an XCR they used regularly and ran pretty hard. At one point, probably from heat related to constant mag dumps, the gas block cracked. I'm told RobArm would not admit nor fix it. I have mixed feelings about this, if correct. On the one hand can RA be expected to repair a gun that's been abused? On the other, if this is supposed to be a military type firearm, it should be able to take some heat.
I have another acquaintance who took an XCR armorer class a couple years ago. He was so impressed with the quality and design of the rifle that he bought one on the spot.
Now that the ACR is dead maybe the XCR will catch on? At least RA seems committed to the platform which is something Bushmaster never seemed to do.
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Magpul still owns the design of the Masada. Seeing sub $1k Masadas is about as likely as the XCR catching on.
Robinson Arms reminds me of keltec - a company that should design guns, sell the designs and let others build them.
The ACR was dead long before Remington killed Bushmaster. Remington Defense made an improved ACR for GOV sales but never rolled these improvements over to the commercial ACR. Plus what is the point of. a modular rifle if the modular options aren’t available ?
Given that the SCAR won the contract all these guns were designed for and the SCAR L was then dropped because the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze over AR/M4 platforms why bother ?
SCAR and ACR both have problems with plastic mags in my experience. Neither rifle has any sort of feed lip supports in the upper receiver. Seating a mag on an open bolt will cause rounds to pop loose like some kind of ammunition Pez dispensary.
Furthermore the SCAR lacks what's referred to as a feed cone on the breech end of the barrel. This means the gun can have feeding issues with soft points, JHP or certain types of frangible ammo. I'm told current guns are better in this regard but still don't have the beveled feed cone that's common on the AR.
In defense of both rifles, I'm guessing that FN designed the SCAR for best performance with ball ammo and from FN steel magazines. And the ACR was built to run the original PMAG that is now out of production. Still, it makes no sense to design a modern combat rifle that is supposed to be compatible with all kinds of AR mags but then restrict it to your own specific take on what's best for AR mags.
Is the XCR better in this regard? Will it spit rounds when loaded with the bolt back? Will monopodding a mag in the prone push the mag up high enough in the mag well that it makes contact with the bolt carrier? If so, it is as flawed as its contemporaries. But if it is built to run with a variety of different mags without issue and it has some caliber conversion stuff that's easily sourced it is already well ahead of the other two.
As far as modular MSRs go, I would say the current one to beat is the SIG MCX.
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