What can be learned from this?

[medic15al]

Not enough information known to draw any conclusions.

I will say that I’ve been on over 100 search warrants as a SWAT officer, a SWAT team leader, a narcotics detective, a narcotics sergeant, and a special agent. I’ve been on scene when federal tactical teams have served search warrants. I’ve never been on one where law enforcement wasn’t yelling “Police, search warrant” the entire time. Even on “no knocks”, you’re still identifying yourself the whole time.



We never used video on SWAT entries. After I got our narc unit body cameras, we used them on the search warrants that we served ourselves, which were always knock and announce. I was more concerned about having video of the actual searches for evidentiary purposes than anything else.

Keep in mind the bad guys yell the same during an home invasion. 2 came thru my door yelling Police! Warrant! a couple years back and it did not even slow me down as I defended my family.

Just be aware the bad guys also buy the Police T-shirts and wear them as well. 3 were arrested not far from me last Christmas while hitting my co-worker's home.

[TC215]

Keep in mind the bad guys yell the same during an home invasion. 2 came thru my door yelling Police! Warrant! a couple years back and it did not even slow me down as I defended my family.

Just be aware the bad guys also buy the Police T-shirts and wear them as well. 3 were arrested not far from me last Christmas while hitting my co-worker's home.

Not saying that doesn’t happen, I was trying to make the point that the claims of police not announcing themselves are normally bullshit.

[medic15al]

Not saying that doesn’t happen, I was trying to make the point that the claims of police not announcing themselves are normally bullshit.

Ah ok... Understand.

[blues]

Not saying that doesn’t happen, I was trying to make the point that the claims of police not announcing themselves are normally bullshit.

I would agree, T. But having experienced it myself, while serving as an LEO, we know it can happen.

[SAWBONES]

Interesting thread.

So, as a non-LEO, and while understanding that home invasions in general are unlikely if you're not involved in drug-trade issues, and that "police impersonator" home invasions are even yet less likely, still...what ought a homeowner/family man (or woman) do in the wee hours to a loud command of "POLICE. OPEN UP" outside the front door?

Ask to see ID through the peephole?
Look out the window for squad cars?
Barricade oneself in a separate room?
Call 911?

What if the door is forcefully breached before you get any answers?

[blues]

Interesting thread.

So, as a non-LEO, and while understanding that home invasions in general are unlikely if you're not involved in drug-trade issues, and that "police impersonator" home invasions are even yet less likely, still...what ought a homeowner/family man (or woman) do in the wee hours to a loud command of "POLICE. OPEN UP" outside the front door?

Ask to see ID through the peephole?
Look out the window for squad cars?
Barricade oneself in a separate room?
Call 911?

What if the door is forcefully breached before you get any answers?

I'd want to see multiple units...and a call to the station / precinct would be prudent if the team leader will allow. It's hard to guarantee anything depending on the exigency of the situation. If they think crucial evidence will be destroyed, or targets may be able to arm themselves, time will be fleeting at best.

ID is nice but you're probably not going to be clear headed enough to discern what it is. Plus, standing in front of a door is a very hot zone.

[jnc36rcpd]

I agree on blues' tactics. You might also yell that you're calling 911. Depending on circumstances, this might--and I emphasize might--discourage either good guys or bad guys from breaching the door.

[whomever]

"I’ve never been on one where law enforcement wasn’t yelling “Police, search warrant” the entire time."

A question about that - I was at a class once where we spent a day doing the slicing-the-pie thing. Two of the students were currently serving patrol officers. During a break someone opined they must use that stuff all the time, and as best I recall the response it was something like:

"Not really. When we're in people's homes for an alarm trip or welfare check we're more worried about getting into a gunfight with a homeowner who thinks we're a burglar than running into an actual burglar, so we're bellowing 'Sheriff's Dept' every few steps ... and we still end up standing in the bedrooms of sleeping people and shaking them awake".

I didn't think to ask whether those people were elderly and deaf, or drunk, or what, but I have noticed over a few decades of sleeping with my wife that sometimes a loud noise will wake up both of us, sometimes neither, or sometimes one of us. My sense is that we go in or out of various sleep cycles, and for some of them we're pretty deep down.

So, finally, the question - is that the case? Do you actually find sober/not deaf people who are sleeping so hard they sleep through, or partly through, a raid?

[Hambo]

Frankly, my reaction to this is "I can't beat that, or prevent it, and it's fucking terrifying." So how can I work on that to minimize it?

-Cory

Stay out of the drug business. Seriously, if you're not in it, it's highly unlikely that the police will ram your door, or that someone will try to rip you. I'm not saying it never happens or that it's impossible, but it's damned unlikely. We live near a flight path to an executive airport, and every now and then I listen to a jet whine and wonder when one will convert my house into a smoking hole. I never wonder if cops will hit my house by mistake.

[SAWBONES]

Thanks guys.

I think yelling that you're calling 911 might well be a deterrent to imposters, but of course if they break the door, there won't be time to figure anything out.

I certainly see the wisdom of standing away out of the region of the "hot zone" in front of the door.