Edited to disregard - I just saw Rob’s post above. These are AOWs, correct?
Edited to disregard - I just saw Rob’s post above. These are AOWs, correct?
Ken
BBI: ...”you better not forget the safe word because shit's about to get weird”...
revchuck38: ...”mo' ammo is mo' betta' unless you're swimming or on fire.”
Here they would be.Originally Posted by HeavyDuty
In Canada no big deal.
Our shotgun/rifle restrictions make 26” a magic number.
This place gives me ADD. How long did I just spend checking out double barrel coach guns? Dang.
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Not another dime.
Thanks. I read up about it when I bought my Shockwave, but age related dementia and shit...
Ken
BBI: ...”you better not forget the safe word because shit's about to get weird”...
revchuck38: ...”mo' ammo is mo' betta' unless you're swimming or on fire.”
The advantage of the break open gun is a shorter action than a pump or semi. So an 18" gun can get 3-6" shorter overall while still having a fullsized stock. The downside, of course, is limited capacity. If anyone wants to run a break open gun defensively, ejectors are mandatory.
If nothing else they are fun and you can always challenge your buddies to shoot some skeet and try to hit triples with a double gun...
A Tac-14 Hardwood is high on my list of "wants" but low on my list of "needs" because of the 26" magic number and because of transport laws.
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ETA: It really does bum me out that shotguns are so heavily regulated here. Seriously, a reliable box mag fed semi-auto "Shockwave" with a folding brace that was 18" long folded up, would be awesome. But since we don't have 1) Particularly reliable box-mag-fed shotguns, 2) guns that can be made that compact without NFA registration, 3) laws against carrying loaded shotguns - we don't have such a choice.
many moons ago we ran short after-matches at our IDPA club where we'd shoot the stages with carbines or shotguns or both, often stringing multiple stages together to make them more fun.
One dude showed up with a side-by-side coach gun and managed to clean damn near everyone's clock with the thing.
this was long before 3-gun had taken off, with quad loaders and mag tubes that double as monopods and all that jazz, so he was shooting against garden variety pumps and a few semi-autos (i think the original Benelli M4 had just come out or was otherwise the hot shit ninja gun at the time) but it was still quite an accomplishment and quite a sight to see.
Some of those 'Fudds' have been running break open guns longer than we've been alive and have a lot of reps. Where I grew up, there were older guys who would clear their dove limit in <20 minutes with break-open doubles. I once saw a guy fire a damn single shot like it was a trick shoot. He hit three droves before I could bring a pump up and fire a single round. If you look at some of the Cowboy Action shooters and the way they stage shells, that's what some of these guys would do, basically, a shell in the gun and two held in the off hand, to dump into the chamber. That stuff works well if you have time to stage it all and/or you're shooting doves not people.
I practice with the single-shot and weighted practice shells to be able to reload from the butt cuff on my gun. But I figure the single-shot gives me...a single shot of double-aught, before I switch to the pistol. If I can reload, so much the better. My basic technique is to view it as an ambush gun at the end of a 'fatal funnel'. Basically if multiple attackers can't spread out, I should be able to lay hate down with it, until I run out of shells (so...uhh...6-7 shells). I'm definitely counting on short range and power to function as my force multiplier. I'm fairly certain that's a safe bet for a shotgun at hotel-room distances.
I was surprised how many Joe Biden Specials were available at the last gun show I attended. Both new manufactured and older double shotguns modified into coach guns. It was in PA where the laws on ownership aren’t particularly onerous but every other table had a few. Seeing how fast some of the SASS guys are I guess you could be worse off.
I have an 18.5” 16ga H&R single shot that a friend gave me. It’s better than a musket but things would have to get pretty medieval for me to get that far down into the safe.
We sort of have a similar effect at that size...that thing became a handgun when I popped the grip on, because it's under 26". Although at least for a while there was some issue with wording on this which referred to "modifications" to reduce the size below 26" and there was some previous decision about how changing out a grip didn't count as a "modification" but I don't remember how it all shook out. Anyway, that thing happens to be a little on the short side but a 26" version would still make a good PDW. Might still get it in a carry-on bag diagonally; I believe the dimensions of a carry-on bag are 22", 14" and 9".
So a typical carry-on is 26.09" on the diagonal. If you had a soft-sided one instead of the hard case spinners that got popular a couple of years ago you could definitely get one in there.
Sorry, not intending to spin the thread sideways...just thinking about Rob's motel bugout which I think is a pretty realistic application for a bag gun, and what I think would actually benefit me to have in that scenario. If you wanted to avoid inter-state SBR problems, and have a motel-parking-lot fight stopper, I'm just thinking that for most actual situations I can think of going sideways in that context, a Mossberg Shockwave beats the hell out of a B&T 9mm anything. I understand it's not really in the spirit of what we're discussion as "traditional" (?) PDWs and yes, I would say a Rattler would be my preference for a lot of reasons. I'm just trying to think outside the box in terms of the motel bugout.
I can't argue that a shotgun beats a pistol-caliber anything. And at motel parking lot distances, it's definitely on par with a Rattler or .300BLK rifle. Alas, it's just the "everything else" (i.e., regulation) that gets in the way of it being useful in this regard for the average citizen. And for people doing things like Craig described, they probably need the ability to defeat soft body armor so the shotgun becomes less useful for them as well.
That said I don't think Goat-Boot-Wife-Beater is going to stand around and take multiple 147-grain or 230-grain HSTs to the chest from a B&T...And unless goat boots are bullet proof...you probably don't have to worry about soft armor issues. And we do know that chances of reloading in a 'civilian' gunfight are quite low and successful shootings occur with everything from .22LR to .500NE and that while pistol calibers aren't as good as rifle calibers, they'll do the job fine if you put the bullets in the A-zone.
And being able to put bullets into the A-zone quicker with your 'PDW' is why you have it, in addition to your pistol.
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