Let's talk PDW's

[Hieronymous]

Hmm. Seems Mr CZ... I mean, Mr Pannone has an APC. Attachment 51109

I had an APC 9. Wanted to try out some good ‘ol Swiss quality. And wanted something to shoot at my indoor range other than the Glock 19 and P365. It was super solid, impeccably machined and boringly accurate. I immediately recognized how much training and practice I would need to duplicate (with a pistol) the silly easy speed and accuracy of the APC 9, or any similar weapon system.

[Pit]

I'm curious why you selected that particular load. The only 2 bullets in 300BLK I can recall DocGKR endorsing are 110gr TTSX and 110gr GMX. Usually Varmint bullets are not great choices for two-legged predators.

El Cid,

Nice catch on this one. 1st night on 3rd shift. I am using the Hornady 110 GMX for work based on a conversation with DocGRK. Keeping my eyes open for the Supersonic 110 gr Barnes TTSX at a fair price as Doc recommended it 1st.

I got the Hornady 110 V-Max from SG Ammo at a good price for training ammo as the Magtech 123 gr ball is not very accurate out of this snubby barreled weapon. Both Hornady rounds perform fine out to 100 yards which is realistically an extremely long shot operationally.

JW

[GJM]

Seems like the whole point of the 9mm PDW is to be able to shoot better than with your pistol. If you can not shoot significantly better with it, you might as well just have your pistol or a second pistol in your pack. I think this is a situation where size matters — smaller is easier to carry, but there can be a point where too small makes it hard to shoot. The Honey Badger is an example, as while it carried a bit smaller than an eight inch .300 AR, for me, it shot like an itty bitty thing.

So, for those that have these, what drills are you doing to evaluate performance? I routinely pull the APC9 Pro out near the end of a session, and shoot the same arrays I have been doing with my pistol. As the distance grows, the APC’s advantage increases.

[ccmdfd]

El Cid,

Keeping my eyes open for the Supersonic 110 gr Barnes TTSX at a fair price as Doc recommended it 1st.

JW

Seen any around lately?

cc

[TC215]

Hmm. Seems Mr CZ... I mean, Mr Pannone has an APC.

He's Mr. STI these days.

[shane45]

Seems like the whole point of the 9mm PDW is to be able to shoot better than with your pistol. If you can not shoot significantly better with it, you might as well just have your pistol or a second pistol in your pack. I think this is a situation where size matters — smaller is easier to carry, but there can be a point where too small makes it hard to shoot. The Honey Badger is an example, as while it carried a bit smaller than an eight inch .300 AR, for me, it shot like an itty bitty thing.

So, for those that have these, what drills are you doing to evaluate performance? I routinely pull the APC9 Pro out near the end of a session, and shoot the same arrays I have been doing with my pistol. As the distance grows, the APC’s advantage increases.

GJM, that's how I felt when handling the SIG Rattler, it felt so small I felt like I wouldnt have a good purchase on it with my Condor wingspan. I went Mk18 to actually gain a little size.

[Clusterfrack]

He's Mr. STI these days.

This makes me sad.

[WobblyPossum]

This makes me sad.

The Staccato he’s testing is killing it right now.

[RevolverRob]

No real mention of either the RONI or Kriss Vector so far, why is that? They both seem like better options than standard direct blowback AR9s, at least. Plus: foldable stocks/braces, glock mags (duh), and better stock triggers than an MP5, scorpion, or TP9. And softer recoil than anything straight blowback.

I have a thread Learn Me Kriss Vector SDP - Seems we don't have any real experience with them. From my digging around on the internet, no one serious is using the Vector and reliability is very hit and miss. Either you get one that runs or you don't.

I've also seen several complaints about the recoil system resulting in pushing the muzzle up as the bolt slams back forward, resulting in stringing of shots on fast shooting strings. I watched a few videos where it was clear that stringing was occurring due to the odd recoil impulse. In other words, there is no real discernible advantage of the Vector system even on full-auto, over a straight blowback gun. Seems like the radial or roller blowback guns like the CMMG or an MP5 will remain the softer shooting guns out there.

FWIW, the large mass of bolts in straight blowback guns has never bothered me when shooting quickly or especially on full auto. The bolt slamming forward does cause the muzzle to dip, but you're simultaneously fighting muzzle rise with a short barreled weapon at cyclic-speed, they kind of counter-balance, muzzle rise still wins at the end of the day on a mag dump. But on a 3-5 round bursts it seems to even out to keep the bullets stacked fairly tight. At least that's my experience with moderate rate-of-fire SMGs, like the Sterling MK IV and a couple of Lage-upper-equipped Macs.

[El Cid]

Seems like the whole point of the 9mm PDW is to be able to shoot better than with your pistol. If you can not shoot significantly better with it, you might as well just have your pistol or a second pistol in your pack. I think this is a situation where size matters — smaller is easier to carry, but there can be a point where too small makes it hard to shoot. The Honey Badger is an example, as while it carried a bit smaller than an eight inch .300 AR, for me, it shot like an itty bitty thing.

So, for those that have these, what drills are you doing to evaluate performance? I routinely pull the APC9 Pro out near the end of a session, and shoot the same arrays I have been doing with my pistol. As the distance grows, the APC’s advantage increases.

That’s what I do with mine. I also use it at steel matches. That’s when it really shines for me over a traditional handgun.

Seen any around lately?

cc

Not much ammo of any kind around lately. The 110 TTSX is on the expensive side so I usually just add a box every time I shop at Midway USA or someplace that sells it. Before I knew it I had quite a stash.