Let's talk PDW's

[Mike C]

Solid work Mike.

I assume no can on this guy? Are the Sub-Xs actually cycling or are you having to hand cycle them on the + setting?

Shit I knew I forgot something in the notes. No, I put a Rugged Micro30 on for all subs. All functioned fine and locked back on empty except the 208's. 208's functioned find they just didn't lock back. This gun is awesome and I can easily hit steel at 200, it was about a 10" hold over from where I am zeroed. They didn't have any steel setup at 250 but the next time I go out there I will shoot some at 250 yards. I don't think it will be an issue.

[RevolverRob]

Shit I knew I forgot something in the notes. No, I put a Rugged Micro30 on for all subs. All functioned fine and locked back on empty except the 208's. 208's functioned find they just didn't lock back. This gun is awesome and I can easily hit steel at 200, it was about a 10" hold over from where I am zeroed. They didn't have any steel setup at 250 but the next time I go out there I will shoot some at 250 yards. I don't think it will be an issue.

No worries, why I double checked!

What distance are zero'ed at?

This is the Romeo5 right?

[Pit]

Good into on the chrono # Mike C! Thanks much.

JW

[SouthNarc]

I wasn't sure if I should start another thread and since there is so much talk about the 300 BLK I figured this might be the best place to post this. Mods please move if this post is more appropriate somewhere else.

I was able to run a few different loads over a chronograph today. Boy was I wrong about the velocities on the 300 Blackout from a 5.5" barrel. I thought I was remembering correctly at 18.5 grains of Lil' Gun was damn near max load for the 110gr Barnes and that is not the case. Barnes data, (https://barnesbullets.com/wp-content...utV6ForWeb.pdf) data shows a max load of 19.4 grains which is a fair bit higher than what I had used and I was seeing blown primers and cratered at.

I wouldn't personally go that high but it is obvious that Barnes has no qualms in doing so. My average muzzle velocity with the factory Barnes loading was 1,937.6 FPS, and here I was thinking 1,800 FPS was going to be the max. I am happy to be wrong on this as this puts the round at about 1,317 FPS at 280 yards or so using a BC. That means out of a 5.5" barrel with the Barnes having an expansion threshold to 1,300 FPS you have real expansion capability to damn near 300 yards. That is just out right impressive out of a 5.5" barrel if my math, (not my strong suit thanks TBI) is correct. If anyone needs or wants specifics to double check me I'd be happy to oblige. Just PM me and I'll send you everything so we can make sure the numbers are right.

My only gripe about the Barnes was the high Std. Dev. at 41 but in all fairness it could have been my shitty chronograph as I had to constantly reset it because someone needed to work the wall right where I was hunting for data. I hope to test some more loads but the Sig and Barnes loads are front runners considering the bullet construction and composition. Hornady Black 110gr A-MAX still look pretty good but would stick with an all copper or GMX bullet as Doc says they are GTG. I plan to print these on paper at a later date but most likely it will just be the Barnes and the Sig ammo but I'm leaning heavily toward the Sig ammo since my local shop has tons of it and it also looks like I can easily obtain large quantities online as South Narc did. Barnes I know will work though as I have taken some small deer with it. Here are the numbers and info I was able to obtain today at the range.

1130R09MAY20
65 degrees Fahrenheit
400’ Above sea level
Sig Sauer Rattler 5.5” Barrel 300 BLK
30 round P-mag
Measurements taken at 10’ from Caldwell Chronograph

Hornady A-MAX 208gr .300 BLK Notes: Does not lock on empty with gas port set to + Ejection 3' @ 3 o'clock.
AVG MV 914.2 FPS
AVG ME 386 FT-LBS
SD 13.1

Hornady SUB-X 190gr .300 BLK Notes: Locks back on empty with gas port set to + very soft shooting load, (felt like PCC). Ejection 4' @ 3 o'clock.
AVG MV 920.2 FPS
AVG ME 357 FT-LBS
SD 14.4

Hornady V-MAX 110gr .300 BLK Notes: Softest shooting super sonic load. Nice tight pile of brass at 4 o'clock 9-10'.
AVG MV 1,954.8 FPS
AVG ME 933.3 FT-LBS
SD 13.3

Sig Sauer SBR 120gr .300 BLK Nothing to note. Forgot to record ejection pattern.
AVG MV 1,855.6 FPS
AVG ME 917.4 FT-LBS
SD 20.4

Barnes TAC-TX 110gr .300 BLK Hardest cycling load, most brisk ejection. Erratic ejection @ 4 o'clock 15'.
AVG MV 1937.6 FPS
AVG ME 916.9 FT-LBS
SD 41.4

Magtech Tactical 115gr .300 BLK Fairly mid cycling, good positive ejection. Ejection @ 330-4 o'clock 10'.
AVG MV 1885 FPS
AVG ME 907.3 FT-LBS
SD 17.7

Sorry for the huge post.

Awesome info buddy thank you!

[Mike C]

No worries, why I double checked!

What distance are zero'ed at?

This is the Romeo5 right?

100 yards with the Romeo5/Barnes. I rough zeroed with the Magtech at 50 then confirmed at 100 with 3 rounds of the barnes then dropped 17 rounds at 200. 16/17 at 200 once I saw I was a bit low and needed to hold over a little more. I will likely play with the zeroes again and probably end up with something like 125-150 yard zero to get the minimal vertical dispersion I can to 200.

[Norville]

Took my Palmetto Poor PDW out this morning. The Sig 125s seem to not want to feed from a 5.56 magazine, but it ran like a champ on everything else I tried. The overall length is long and not sharply tapered. Better order a few 300 specific mags to try.

The DPP is temporary, had it on the shelf and an AR spacer.

I sold all my reloading gear when I moved, but I figured I better start collecting brass...

[EPF]

100 yards with the Romeo5/Barnes. I rough zeroed with the Magtech at 50 then confirmed at 100 with 3 rounds of the barnes then dropped 17 rounds at 200. 16/17 at 200 once I saw I was a bit low and needed to hold over a little more. I will likely play with the zeroes again and probably end up with something like 125-150 yard zero to get the minimal vertical dispersion I can to 200.

Thanks for sharing your work! Did you by any chance get a feel for whether the gun preferred the SIG or Barnes accuracy wise?

[MandoWookie]

This thread has definitely got me hooked into the concept. But budget wise I cannot even approach something like the Rattler,and .300 BLK is not something I want to get into. That leads me to think 9mm for something that approaches the size profile, while also remaining reasonably within my price range. Looking at the shortest factory options, PSA has a 4" upper thats currently out of stock, but does have a dedicated Colt mag lower that looks good. Upper wise the RRA 4.5" upper looks good. https://www.rockriverarms.com/index....tegory_ID=2007

But does anyone have any opinions on RRA quality these days? It can't be much more of crap shoot than PSA, can it? Thinking getting this https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...r-classic.html

Slapping the RRA upper on it, and installing the LAW folder when I can, seems like a quick and dirty way to try out the concept without getting too deep in the weeds. Thoughts?

[vandal]

For a 9mm the CMMG Banshee radial delayed blowback and their compact brace is pretty slick. World of difference vs. blowback. With a 4” 9mm I don’t need a folding brace adding width.

I have trouble thinking the juice is worth the squeeze with 9mm PDW though. What does a 9mm PDW in a bag give you that a RMR G19 doesn’t once you factor in time to deploy?

If I’m pulling something out of a bag it should give me a big advantage vs what I can pull from under my shirt in a fraction of the time.

[Mike C]

Thanks for sharing your work! Did you by any chance get a feel for whether the gun preferred the SIG or Barnes accuracy wise?

I did not but what I can tell you from memory a few years ago with some Colts I swapped over to 300 was the Barnes and Amax loads we the most accurate I tested. Sig ammo didn’t exist in its current format or wasn’t in my peripheral. Honestly out of this gun 2.5-3 MOA would be just fine. So my biggest concern is more reliability with said ammo and availability/pricing. Once I get to 2K with this gun it will likely only be shot once a month with context to what I’d use it for unless I buy lots of coated subs to shoot it on the cheap.