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Thread: Let's talk PDW's

  1. #1581
    Member Xhado's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Helotes, TX
    Alright guys, you win.

    I just bought a Rattler.

  2. #1582
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Gotham Adjacent
    Quote Originally Posted by Xhado View Post
    Alright guys, you win.

    I just bought a Rattler.
    We're all planning to meet wearing our Rattlesnake Skin Boots later this year.

  3. #1583
    Site Supporter Norville's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    WI
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
    I completely agree. Don't like or see the need for the RED for myself. If you want you can buy just the adapter, (Burnsed Socket) to plug the sling to itself so you can just use a regular Vickers sling with standard sockets if you want. That is definitely the way I'd go. For $16 plus shipping I think it's worth it to have some options. Maybe LL needs an affiliate link for these guys. Lots of good gear from them.

    https://www.blueforcegear.com/burnsed-socket.html
    Here’s one of mine using the adapter socket.
    Magpul MS 4(?) comes with a similar setup.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  4. #1584

    Pdw weight

    Been following this thread. One thing I can’t get my head around is the weight of most PDWs from reputable or semi reputable manufacturers still seems only incrementally less than their M4 or MP5 parents. With the exception of the 4lb HK MP7 which is unobtainable. Most start before loaded mag at 5.5 lbs+. I don’t mind carrying the weight but it seems like somewhere between a 2-3 lb 9mm pistol and an 8 lb M4 the pdw weight would be nicer if it if it were sub 5 lbs. Maybe there are no work arounds that don’t have a negative trade offs like barrel accuracy loss for hotter thinner barrels but you can get AR15s down to 5lbs mostly from small niche manufacturers. I guess if it’s a vehicle gun who cares but if you rucking weight for distance weight savings is huge.

  5. #1585
    Member orionz06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Quote Originally Posted by GearFondler View Post
    I can't blame him... That's fucking highway robbery right there. That should be $50 max.
    But this is 'merica so I wish him the best of luck with his business.
    They'd be losing money under $75...






    The newer Magpul slings function well enough as a 2P and adapt to single and work well enough there.
    Think for yourself. Question authority.

  6. #1586

    300 Blackout Velocity numbers from Sig Rattler

    I wasn't sure if I should start another thread and since there is so much talk about the 300 BLK I figured this might be the best place to post this. Mods please move if this post is more appropriate somewhere else.

    I was able to run a few different loads over a chronograph today. Boy was I wrong about the velocities on the 300 Blackout from a 5.5" barrel. I thought I was remembering correctly at 18.5 grains of Lil' Gun was damn near max load for the 110gr Barnes and that is not the case. Barnes data, (https://barnesbullets.com/wp-content...utV6ForWeb.pdf) data shows a max load of 19.4 grains which is a fair bit higher than what I had used and I was seeing blown primers and cratered at.

    I wouldn't personally go that high but it is obvious that Barnes has no qualms in doing so. My average muzzle velocity with the factory Barnes loading was 1,937.6 FPS, and here I was thinking 1,800 FPS was going to be the max. I am happy to be wrong on this as this puts the round at about 1,317 FPS at 280 yards or so using a BC. That means out of a 5.5" barrel with the Barnes having an expansion threshold to 1,300 FPS you have real expansion capability to damn near 300 yards. That is just out right impressive out of a 5.5" barrel if my math, (not my strong suit thanks TBI) is correct. If anyone needs or wants specifics to double check me I'd be happy to oblige. Just PM me and I'll send you everything so we can make sure the numbers are right.

    My only gripe about the Barnes was the high Std. Dev. at 41 but in all fairness it could have been my shitty chronograph as I had to constantly reset it because someone needed to work the wall right where I was hunting for data. I hope to test some more loads but the Sig and Barnes loads are front runners considering the bullet construction and composition. Hornady Black 110gr A-MAX still look pretty good but would stick with an all copper or GMX bullet as Doc says they are GTG. I plan to print these on paper at a later date but most likely it will just be the Barnes and the Sig ammo but I'm leaning heavily toward the Sig ammo since my local shop has tons of it and it also looks like I can easily obtain large quantities online as South Narc did. Barnes I know will work though as I have taken some small deer with it. Here are the numbers and info I was able to obtain today at the range.

    1130R09MAY20
    65 degrees Fahrenheit
    400’ Above sea level
    Sig Sauer Rattler 5.5” Barrel 300 BLK
    30 round P-mag
    Measurements taken at 10’ from Caldwell Chronograph

    Hornady A-MAX 208gr .300 BLK Notes: Does not lock on empty with gas port set to + Ejection 3' @ 3 o'clock.
    AVG MV 914.2 FPS
    AVG ME 386 FT-LBS
    SD 13.1

    Hornady SUB-X 190gr .300 BLK Notes: Locks back on empty with gas port set to + very soft shooting load, (felt like PCC). Ejection 4' @ 3 o'clock.
    AVG MV 920.2 FPS
    AVG ME 357 FT-LBS
    SD 14.4

    Hornady V-MAX 110gr .300 BLK Notes: Softest shooting super sonic load. Nice tight pile of brass at 4 o'clock 9-10'.
    AVG MV 1,954.8 FPS
    AVG ME 933.3 FT-LBS
    SD 13.3

    Sig Sauer SBR 120gr .300 BLK Nothing to note. Forgot to record ejection pattern.
    AVG MV 1,855.6 FPS
    AVG ME 917.4 FT-LBS
    SD 20.4

    Barnes TAC-TX 110gr .300 BLK Hardest cycling load, most brisk ejection. Erratic ejection @ 4 o'clock 15'.
    AVG MV 1937.6 FPS
    AVG ME 916.9 FT-LBS
    SD 41.4

    Magtech Tactical 115gr .300 BLK Fairly mid cycling, good positive ejection. Ejection @ 330-4 o'clock 10'.
    AVG MV 1885 FPS
    AVG ME 907.3 FT-LBS
    SD 17.7

    Sorry for the huge post.
    Last edited by Mike C; 05-09-2020 at 03:54 PM.

  7. #1587
    I'm waiting for the no bcg/ch to be in stock!


    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post

  8. #1588
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    SE FL
    Quote Originally Posted by rca90gsx View Post
    I'm waiting for the no bcg/ch to be in stock!
    At the price they list you could sell
    Those parts and have a $200 upper

    I’m waiting on a different version of the same upper.

  9. #1589
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Gotham Adjacent
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
    I wasn't sure if I should start another thread and since there is so much talk about the 300 BLK I figured this might be the best place to post this. Mods please move if this post is more appropriate somewhere else.

    I was able to run a few different loads over a chronograph today. Boy was I wrong about the velocities on the 300 Blackout from a 5.5" barrel. I thought I was remembering correctly at 18.5 grains of Lil' Gun was damn near max load for the 110gr Barnes and that is not the case. Barnes data, (https://barnesbullets.com/wp-content...utV6ForWeb.pdf) data shows a max load of 19.4 grains which is a fair bit higher than what I had used and I was seeing blown primers and cratered at.

    I wouldn't personally go that high but it is obvious that Barnes has no qualms in doing so. My average muzzle velocity with the factory Barnes loading was 1,937.6 FPS, and here I was thinking 1,800 FPS was going to be the max. I am happy to be wrong on this as this puts the round at about 1,317 FPS at 280 yards or so using a BC. That means out of a 5.5" barrel with the Barnes having an expansion threshold to 1,300 FPS you have real expansion capability to damn near 300 yards. That is just out right impressive out of a 5.5" barrel if my math, (not my strong suit thanks TBI) is correct. If anyone needs or wants specifics to double check me I'd be happy to oblige. Just PM me and I'll send you everything so we can make sure the numbers are right.

    My only gripe about the Barnes was the high Std. Dev. at 41 but in all fairness it could have been my shitty chronograph as I had to constantly reset it because someone needed to work the wall right where I was hunting for data. I hope to test some more loads but the Sig and Barnes loads are front runners considering the bullet construction and composition. Hornady Black 110gr A-MAX still look pretty good but would stick with an all copper or GMX bullet as Doc says they are GTG. I plan to print these on paper at a later date but most likely it will just be the Barnes and the Sig ammo but I'm leaning heavily toward the Sig ammo since my local shop has tons of it and it also looks like I can easily obtain large quantities online as South Narc did. Barnes I know will work though as I have taken some small deer with it. Here are the numbers and info I was able to obtain today at the range.

    1130R09MAY20
    65 degrees Fahrenheit
    400’ Above sea level
    Sig Sauer Rattler 5.5” Barrel 300 BLK
    30 round P-mag
    Measurements taken at 10’ from Caldwell Chronograph

    Hornady A-MAX 208gr .300 BLK Notes: Does not lock on empty with gas port set to + Ejection 3' @ 3 o'clock.
    AVG MV 914.2 FPS
    AVG ME 386 FT-LBS
    SD 13.1

    Hornady SUB-X 190gr .300 BLK Notes: Locks back on empty with gas port set to + very soft shooting load, (felt like PCC). Ejection 4' @ 3 o'clock.
    AVG MV 920.2 FPS
    AVG ME 357 FT-LBS
    SD 14.4

    Hornady V-MAX 110gr .300 BLK Notes: Softest shooting super sonic load. Nice tight pile of brass at 4 o'clock 9-10'.
    AVG MV 1,954.8 FPS
    AVG ME 933.3 FT-LBS
    SD 13.3

    Sig Sauer SBR 120gr .300 BLK Nothing to note. Forgot to record ejection pattern.
    AVG MV 1,855.6 FPS
    AVG ME 917.4 FT-LBS
    SD 20.4

    Barnes TAC-TX 110gr .300 BLK Hardest cycling load, most brisk ejection. Erratic ejection @ 4 o'clock 15'.
    AVG MV 1937.6 FPS
    AVG ME 916.9 FT-LBS
    SD 41.4

    Magtech Tactical 115gr .300 BLK Fairly mid cycling, good positive ejection. Ejection @ 330-4 o'clock 10'.
    AVG MV 1885 FPS
    AVG ME 907.3 FT-LBS
    SD 17.7

    Sorry for the huge post.
    Solid work Mike.

    I assume no can on this guy? Are the Sub-Xs actually cycling or are you having to hand cycle them on the + setting?

  10. #1590
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Away, away, away, down.......
    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    At the price they list you could sell
    Those parts and have a $200 upper

    I’m waiting on a different version of the same upper.
    This. I’m not a fan of untreated barrels in the southeast.

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