Let's talk PDW's

[Corse]

I'm not asking about 5.7, I'm very familiar.

So you're taking data about performance of 10.3" past 100 yards and using that to make sweeping statements that 7.5" will only make icepick wounds?

The 7.5" will have a shorter effective range than 10.3", but it still has an effective range. The 10.3" has a shorter effective range than 11.5". The 11.5" has shorter range than 12.5". The 12.5" has a shorter effective range than 14.5". The 14.5" has a shorter effective range than 16".

If I made the statement, "Well, 14.5" will only make icepick wounds because 16" falls off after XXX yards", would that compute? No, that's not a universal truth even though there are limitations to bullet types and the range at which they'll perform. Neither would it make sense when there are loads that will travel fast enough out of a 7.5" to still perform, even if it's a shorter range. If you select the right load, that range is still farther than the average defensive use that anyone could imagine employing one of these PDWs they're driving around their car with during the coronapocolypse.

I said past 80 yards in multiple posts based on your numbers for expansion, and after that no better than a 5.7. I also said based on that it would probably work fine inside a house, in my opinion, with the accompanying blast. I also said the 300 blk with rounds like the TSX give you a much larger window. And, in my opinion, would make a much better round out of short barrels. SBRs are already a compromise, I don’t want to give up even more when I don’t have to.

I’m pretty sure most defensive gun use is within hand gun range, but there are exceptions (Walmart has pretty big parking lots). If I was going to go through the trouble of carting around a rifle, I want a rifle.

Now a little brief case with an MP5k tucked inside would be neat.

I think some people might be taking this personal.

[Corse]

Well, you can still get a 10.5 down pretty small, even if you don't like to go any shorter.

Attachment 50957

I used to call that my "commuter gun" since it fit diagonally in my messenger bag.

What stock are you using? Overall length?

[jandbj]

I'm wondering why the larger 9mm PCCs get the nod these days.

The B&T TP9 gets almost no mention, anywhere, when people talk about PDWs. It seems like the perfect PDW to me, if you're jumping down to pistol calibers. If I can fit an APC9K, I can fit a Honey Badger, so I'd rather have the latter.

The TP9 will fit in much smaller bags, and weighs half as much as the other options. It's something that's been on my radar for a while with great interest.

The Uzi Pro with a brace would fill the TP9 role well too. I’ve done a few 9mm AR uppers and one glock magged lower... kept the Colt upper that I run with endomags on the SBR lower. And have a lot of trigger time on the Uzi SMG... the Uzi Pro with a brace might just be the right ointment for that itch.

[TGS]

I said past 80 yards in multiple posts based on your numbers for expansion, and after that no better than a 5.7. I also said based on that it would probably work fine inside a house, in my opinion, with the accompanying blast. I also said the 300 blk with rounds like the TSX give you a much larger window. And, in my opinion, would make a much better round out of short barrels. SBRs are already a compromise, I don’t want to give up even more when I don’t have to.

I’m pretty sure most defensive gun use is within hand gun range, but there are exceptions (Walmart has pretty big parking lots). If I was going to go through the trouble of carting around a rifle, I want a rifle.

Now a little brief case with an MP5k tucked inside would be neat.

I think some people might be taking this personal.

You mentioned 80 yards in one post, not multiple, and the statement you made that I'm addressing is patently false and didn't include that. You wrote that 7.5" barrels basically turn a 5.56 into a 5.7 that pokes holes, and that's simply not true. I'm not talking about 5.7's efficacy, I'm not talking about your affinity for MP5ks, nor whether you think a 7.5" 5.56 is a real rifle or not.

As for personal, Deflave doesn't seem to care about your bad info and I don't own any 7.5" gun that I would be emotionally invested in. I think they'd be fucking miserable, personally, but people trying to pass bad info as the truth on a technical forum is still bad info that needs to be corrected.

[TGS]

The Uzi Pro with a brace would fill the TP9 role well too. I’ve done a few 9mm AR uppers and one glock magged lower... kept the Colt upper that I run with endomags on the SBR lower. And have a lot of trigger time on the Uzi SMG... the Uzi Pro with a brace might just be the right ointment for that itch.

Very cool. I'm unfamiliar with the Pro, what's different as opposed to the "legacy" (for lack of a better term) Micro, Mini and standard folding stocked Uzis? Picatinney, manual of arms, that sort of stuff?

[jandbj]

Very cool. I'm unfamiliar with the Pro, what's different as opposed to the "legacy" (for lack of a better term) Micro, Mini and standard folding stocked Uzis? Picatinney, manual of arms, that sort of stuff?

Mags for the Pro are backwards compatible to the legacy guns, mag in grip has some advantages for guys who shoot autopistols more than AR platforms. Polymer lower weighs less than the legacy designs, pic rail up top and a side charging handle.

And it looks shit hot in SBR trim too.
http://www.titleiiarms.com/UZI_Pro_O...STOCK_ARM.html

[StraitR]

Well, you can still get a 10.5 down pretty small, even if you don't like to go any shorter.

Attachment 50957

I used to call that my "commuter gun" since it fit diagonally in my messenger bag.

This is the perfect size for a 5.56 gun, IMO.

...EDIT: Same questions about stock and OAL asked above...

I may do a 5.56 version like that at some point.

[El Cid]

Mags for the Pro are backwards compatible to the legacy guns, mag in grip has some advantages for guys who shoot autopistols more than AR platforms. Polymer lower weighs less than the legacy designs, pic rail up top and a side charging handle.

And it looks shit hot in SBR trim too.
http://www.titleiiarms.com/UZI_Pro_O...STOCK_ARM.html

With a short can that looks like a fun little gun! Is the side charging handle non-reciprocating?

ETA: @TGS I think you’re into something here. This is crazy quiet and likely not much longer than my APC9 PRO sans can.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RZLXnhvE_oQ

[StraitR]

With a short can that looks like a fun little gun! Is the side charging handle non-reciprocating?

CH does reciprocate. Don't flag your thumb.

[TGS]

With a short can that looks like a fun little gun! Is the side charging handle non-reciprocating?

ETA: @TGS I think you’re into something here. This is crazy quiet and likely not much longer than my APC9 PRO sans can.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RZLXnhvE_oQ

Yeah, it's sexy, right? Great aesthetics, soft recoil, super compact, and everyone who owns one raves about them. You could carry it in a very small bag, or in a regular sized backpack that can still carry all your other junk for a road trip or what have you. As much as I like watching MACs videos he seems to like every gun he reviews.....but at the same time, he has two TP9s and the real MP9, so that kind of says something.

Yet, ToddG's maxim, "uncommon guns are uncommon for a reason" keeps banging around in my head and prevents me from dropping the coin on one.