Let's talk PDW's

[Screwball]

I agree it is a mess, but can you direct me to further info regarding measuring the oal with the brace folded? What if it’s not braced, just a buffer tube (like we’ll probably be running soon)?

And I believe under the federal definition, over 26” is no longer a pistol hence the ability to install a vertical grip.

Thanks.

It was in an ATF letter... maybe June or July of 2019. Made my TAC-14 folding adapter illegal to mount on my firearm (which is going to be AOWed so I can install it and have OAL of 24”; not a stock, so I can go back to the firearm status, if desired).

Prior to that, firearms and pistols were measured with the brace unfolded, since that was how rifles were measured. But if you remove 8” to 10” of length... you move away that much more from a pistol being 26” OAL... which was likely the reason for the “change.”

If it is a folding tube, from how the letter was written, I’d say it would be measured folded. But definitely look it up and check for yourself.

In regards to the inference about all of us running just buffer tubes in the future... speak for yourself. I didn’t roll over for bump stocks, even if I viewed them as useless... and I’m not rolling over for braces. If they want to make them illegal without any due process, come and get them.

[Norville]

June 2019

https://blog.princelaw.com/2019/07/0...ilizing-brace/

Somehow missed that one.

[BillSWPA]

June 2019

https://blog.princelaw.com/2019/07/0...ilizing-brace/

Somehow missed that one.

This blog is an excellent resource.


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[Rex G]

This is my preferred setup for a LAW equipped pistol that is well under the 13.5" LOP that may hurt the ATFs feelings. Gearhead Works Tailhook mod 1, LAW folder and a VLTOR A5 pistol receiver extension puts the LOP at about 12.25".
Attachment 63280

A Tailhook is what I recently acquired, to mount on my DDM4 V7P, to be LOP-“compliant.”

Edited to add: According to the link to the Prince Law Office blog, posted above, my DDM4 V7P seems legal, as the RE, with the LAW folder extended, does not produce an LOP greater than 13.5 inches, and the the SB Tactical brace should not be used as part of that measurement. Even so, I don’t want some LEO or field agent, with a tape measure, to conveniently forget that the measurement should not include the SB Tactical brace. So, I feel more comfortable with the Tailhook, which adds nothing to the LOP, and, as a bonus, is obviously made to hook around my forearm, to serve as an orthopedic brace.

[Casual Friday]

A Tailhook is what I recently acquired, to mount on my DDM4 V7P, to be LOP-“compliant.”

Edited to add: According to the link to the Prince Law Office blog, posted above, my DDM4 V7P seems legal, as the RE, with the LAW folder extended, does not produce an LOP greater than 13.5 inches, and the the SB Tactical brace should not be used as part of that measurement. Even so, I don’t want some LEO or field agent, with a tape measure, to conveniently forget that the measurement should not include the SB Tactical brace. So, I feel more comfortable with the Tailhook, which adds nothing to the LOP, and, as a bonus, is obviously made to hook around my forearm, to serve as an orthopedic brace.

Added bonus is the Tailhook mod 1 is the most sturdy and usable brace that I've tried. No rubber flaps to get floppy and flappy, no need to buy a special strap that may or may not constitute a modification of the brace. It's just rock solid right outta the box.

[HeavyDuty]

Added bonus is the Tailhook mod 1 is the most sturdy and usable brace that I've tried. No rubber flaps to get floppy and flappy, no need to buy a special strap that may or may not constitute a modification of the brace. It's just rock solid right outta the box.

Yep - and I even use it as a folded open brace, because unlike the rubber ones it actually works that way (and doing so provides bio evidence that it is used as designed.)

[Jaywalker]

A Tailhook is what I recently acquired, to mount on my DDM4 V7P, to be LOP-“compliant.”

Edited to add: According to the link to the Prince Law Office blog, posted above, my DDM4 V7P seems legal, as the RE, ...

What's "RE?"

Also, with regard to the overall length when folded/collapsed, is the LAW/Tailhook shorter than the factory brace? I like the idea of the DDM4, but I wonder if the LAW/Tailhook can save me any folded overall length as compared to the 20.75" collapsed factory brace.

[Rex G]

What's "RE?"

Also, with regard to the overall length when folded/collapsed, is the LAW/Tailhook shorter than the factory brace? I like the idea of the DDM4, but I wonder if the LAW/Tailhook can save me any folded overall length as compared to the 20.75" collapsed factory brace.

RE = Receiver Extension. Also, known as Buffer Tube.

If “factory brace” means the SB Tactical rubbery thing that may or may not have been on my DDM4 V7P, well, the SB Tactical product protrudes beyond the end of the RE. The Tailhook attaches anywhere along the RE, and is not designed to protrude beyond the end of the RE.

Edited to add: I know nothing about a “collapsed factory brace.” That may be something available on newer DD products. I bought my DDM4 V7P in 2018, equipped with a LAW folder by the assemblers at Daniel Defense. “Collapsing” my DDM4 V7P is done by folding the LAW device. Nothing telescopes to make anything longer or shorter.

[Rex G]

Also, with regard to the overall length when folded/collapsed, is the LAW/Tailhook shorter than the factory brace? I like the idea of the DDM4, but I wonder if the LAW/Tailhook can save me any folded overall length as compared to the 20.75" collapsed factory brace.

The Tailhook does not make anything longer or shorter. It has no effect on the LOP. The Tailhook hinges open, to enable using hooking it under the shooter’s forearm, the original design intent of the orthopedic bracing function.

[HCM]

RE = Receiver Extension. Also, known as Buffer Tube.

If “factory brace” means the SB Tactical rubbery thing that may or may not have been on my DDM4 V7P, well, the SB Tactical product prodtrudes beyond the end of the RE. The Tailhook attaches anywhere along the RE, and is not designed to protrude beyond the end of the RE.

Edited to add: I know nothing about a “collapsed factory brace.” That may be something available on newer DD products. I bought my DDM4 V7P in 2018, equipped with a LAW folder by the assemblers at Daniel Defense. “Collapsing” my DDM4 V7P is done by folding the LAW device. Nothing telescopes to make anything longer or shorter.

There are different SB braces. The one which comes on DD factory guns with LAW folders is a fixed LOP brace so there are no issues. DD only uses the adjustable LOP braces (A3/A4) on standard pistols (no folder) so again no LOP issues as it comes from the factory.

Also don't confuse methods for measurement of OAL, which ATF has clearly defined in writing with methods for measurement of LOP which are not clearly defined.