Let's talk PDW's

[OlongJohnson]

.300 BLK works well at the lower velocities only because the bullet manufacturers have engineered projectiles specifically to expand at low speeds, down to ~1350 fps in the case of the Barnes Tac-TX. Run it above ~2350 fps at impact and it starts shedding petals.

There was also a video discussed last year somewhere on this site where Federal engineers (the guys who keep polishing on HSTs) said you start seeing rifle-like tissue damage above about 2300 fps. So .300 BLK, at the top end of its velocity range, is just barely getting its toes across the line.

[RevolverRob]

There was also a video discussed last year somewhere on this site where Federal engineers (the guys who keep polishing on HSTs) said you start seeing rifle-like tissue damage above about 2300 fps. So .300 BLK, at the top end of its velocity range, is just barely getting its toes across the line.

I guess that's why so many deer got away from hunters running 170-grainers out of 18" .30-30s...(which typically push out at 2100 fps).

FWIW - I agree with the general consensus that trying to dip below a 10" barrel in a 5.56 gun is ultimately asking for a significant decrease in reliability (for a DI gun at least) and terminal efficacy. But that's in no small part due to the light weight of the 5.56 projectiles, which rely a lot on velocity to achieve desired terminal effects.

Guns firing heavier projectiles (100+ grains) can rely on the mass of the bullet in many instances to achieve better terminal performance. I doubt any of us are going to argue about the efficacy and 'rifle-like' tissue damage that can be dealt from a 500-grain bullet fired from a .470 Nitro Express at just 2100fps.

[OlongJohnson]

Worth watching again.

[RevolverRob]

I’ve lost track in this monster thread so I’ll drop this here. A buddy asked me for a suggestion for a “PDW that doesn’t cost an arm and leg and doesn’t suck.”

One thing I’ve thought about is the 10.5” Brownells AR-18 (BRN-180) upper. Any lower on hand will do...

Upper: https://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...rod127762.aspx
Buffer Tube to 1913 rail conversion: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022439839
1913-rail mount folding brace - Could go with an SB a Sig, whoever.

Such a setup would get you a folded up gun that can be fired folded, using an AR trigger and STANAG mags...for <1100 bucks (maybe less depending on what your lower situation is like.

Trouble is - I have no idea how good the BRN-180 actually is. Anybody have any real world on it?

[Caballoflaco]

I’ve lost track in this monster thread so I’ll drop this here. A buddy asked me for a suggestion for a “PDW that doesn’t cost an arm and leg and doesn’t suck.”

One thing I’ve thought about is the 10.5” Brownells AR-18 (BRN-180) upper. Any lower on hand will do...

Upper: https://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...rod127762.aspx
Buffer Tube to 1913 rail conversion: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022439839
1913-rail mount folding brace - Could go with an SB a Sig, whoever.

Such a setup would get you a folded up gun that can be fired folded, using an AR trigger and STANAG mags...for <1100 bucks (maybe less depending on what your lower situation is like.

Trouble is - I have no idea how good the BRN-180 actually is. Anybody have any real world on it?

I don’t have any hands on with one yet. The biggest drawbacks I’ve seen are reported in my research is a couple of people have had the barrel loosen in the receiver. It screws directly into the front trunion and isn’t pinned in place. Some folks have had the muzzle device loosen during use since it uses a locknut to tighten (like original ar180’s) vs barrel shoulder and locknut.

Also, replacement barrels aren’t available, and the ones that come on the gun are nitride and not chrome lined. The latter is important to me in the soupy south, but might not be an issue in other parts of the country.

In the end I decided that for me the proprietary nature of the thing makes it no go even though I really want to like it and buy one.

[OlongJohnson]

Nitride, if done right, is just as corrosion resistant as chrome, if not more so.

Questions about long-term support are reasonable, although mitigated by the interface to a universal lower.

I would be much more interested if they did it as an 8-inch .300 BLK.

[DpdG]

Not likely to be an issue with a PDW configuration, but people using flip magnifiers have reported issues with the up-swept charging handle causing their hand to wack the magnifier mount. I've heard of some folks trying to make differently shaped charging handles to get around the issue, with varying degrees of success.

[wvincent]

After 176 pages, I've come to the conclusion that the HK MP7 is probably the ultimate PDW. Too bad they never released a civilian variant.

ETA: Iv'e also come to the conclusion that the only reason I need a bag gun is for low profile reasons. I would be perfectly cool with using my 1895 in 30-40 Krag for home defense or in my hotel room. But, getting that bitch in and out of the hotel without attracting attention is nigh impossible. That where the PDW size is going to shine for me. I know a wood stocked lever action isn't the cool and sexy hotness, but 180gr Core-lokt bullets work really well on flesh and bone.

[El Cid]

After 176 pages, I've come to the conclusion that the HK MP7 is probably the ultimate PDW. Too bad they never released a civilian variant.

Only if your goal is to annoy people you shoot with it.

[wvincent]

Only if your goal is to annoy people you shoot with it.

Well, I annoy people I don't shoot with, so why should not spread the love?
Seriously though, can you expand on that a little? Too blasty? I would think a suppressed version would be about perfect.
But again, I don't know what I don't know?