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Thread: Swartz passive firing pin safety issues: be informed

  1. #31
    Site Supporter Ichiban's Avatar
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    Ugh, I guess I missed this when it was first posted.

    I have a Kimber that I frequently carry. I've run it through several classes and it has been 100% reliable for me but this issue has now got my attention. I truly don't want a click when I'm expecting a bang.

    What is the recommended solution? Remove the FP block?

  2. #32
    Test it.

    Unload, unload, unload. No magazine in place, check the chamber visually and with a finger tip. Racking the slide is not enough.

    Be in a safe place, don't have it pointed at anything you're not willing to kill or destroy. Sorry, it must be said. Actually, not sorry! No harm in reminding ourselves and everyone else, every time.

    Have a pencil, pen, or other punch-like object that you can use to push in on teh firing pin from behind where the hammer hits it.

    Slide forward (it's unloaded, right?), cock the hammer, and put gentle pressure on the trigger while slowly moving the grip safety in. If you have enough pressure on the trigger to drop the hammer, when the GS gets to a certain point, the hammer will fall. If you don't have that much pressure, you will feel the trigger move just a little when the grip safety is moved far enough to allow trigger movement. Either way, this is the point we're looking for, so find it, do it several times so you get the feel for it, and get to where you can feel that point in GS movement without actually dropping the hammer.

    Now-- get to that place-- where you feel the trigger move, indicating that you could now drop the hammer if you put just a little more pressure on the trigger-- and with your third hand, see if the firing pin will move freely forward. Hopefully it does. Other possibilities are, it doesn't, or it moves but with a hitch-- this is where the firing pin is barely making it past the block, like the clearance is borderline not enough. The other option, rather than see if the firing pin will move, is see if it will "shoot" something like Bic pen or not (gun pointed up).

    Note that where this all happens is most likely not at the fully-depressed position of the GS. You may find you have this condition but never, ever had a misfire.... which no doubt means you always get the GS pressed all the way home, bottomed out, thus getting the firing pin block far enough out of the way. It's up to the individual as to whether or not that's good enough but my feeling is that it is far from good enough, and that if you can induce the problem, it could happen at the most inopportune time. Like when you have not achieved a perfect, GS-bottoming grasp on the gun because you're back-pedalling from someone with a hatchet or someone is shooting at you.

    If it fails the test, see if you can find a 1911 smith who can take out the FP block and remove a little metal from the arced part that blocks the FP. I'd love to see some smith offer that as a service.... I mean, of course,the factory should but as far as I know they don't acknowledge the problem. I wish I knew where to send you.

  3. #33
    Member L-2's Avatar
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    For Post 31

    Here are some options for a Kimber "Series II" type 1911.

    1. If your specific Kimber with Swartz firing pin safety (FPS) is working for you, don't worry about it. You could double-check to determine if your grip safety deactivates the FPS prior to allowing the trigger to drop the hammer (depress grip safety until the firing pin can be pushed foward, using a punch; then find out if the trigger is still blocked by the grip safety).

    2. You could remove the FPS block; but as previously mentioned, it resides under a Kimber's rear sight. Kimber's rear sights seem to be installed extra-tight, sometimes requiring the rear sight to be completely cut out (not all Kimbers are this tight, but I did see someone used this method of rear-sight-removal).

    3. A "Series 70" firing pin of the correct diameter has been used by some folks which will keep the FPS perpetually in an upward/deactivated position (this might be the easiest solution for an owner.

    4. I don't recommend removal of the internal levers as it seems the levers also act as a spacer to the right of the sear and I'm unsure if the sear might begin to drift or slide to the right if those levers were removed. Those levers are on the same pin as the sear. Could washers or some type of spacer be used? I suppose so, I've just never come across anybody who's done this by replacing the levers with some type of spacer; lived with it; and shot a Kimber without the two levers residing on that sear pin.

    I believe some folks have somehow disabled/removed the FPS block, but also cut the top of the pushrod lever off. I don't like this option either which permanently alters that pushrod should you want to restore the Series II FPS system for some reason.

    5. You could also just use a 1911 which came without a FPS and retire the Kimber from carry-use. There are several 1911 brands & models which have no FPS (aka Series 70 type). I realize Kimbers might look and feel good, but if you've lost confidence in it, move on to something else. This is what I did as I really like the feel of my Kimber TLE II 5", but moved off of 1911s with FPS systems for various personal reasons.

    After posting, I saw Mr. Ned C. replied prior to me. Go with his advice.

  4. #34
    Site Supporter Ichiban's Avatar
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    I appreciate the help on this.

    It is stainless so I was able to take a 0.5mm mechanical pencil and mark the side of the GS where it went into the frame when the hammer would fall. I then found where the FP would clear the block. Looking at the GS travel, it looks like the FP clears the block just before the hammer falls. Everything seems to be repeatable for about a dozen tries.

    While I think it is okay I'll probably relegate the Kimber to emergency backup status now that my confidence in it is shaken.

  5. #35
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    I think the Series 80 causing trigger pull problems is overblown.

    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
    I used to have four series 80 Colts. I just sold two of them. I shot all of them frequently. I recently purchased a S70 Colt. I'm not seeing a lot of difference in the triggers. I believe if one wants, a S80 can be converted to S70, but I'm not sure there would be enough difference to warrant the swap. My S80 Gold Cup has a decent trigger.
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichiban View Post

    While I think it is okay I'll probably relegate the Kimber to emergency backup status now that my confidence in it is shaken.
    You've used the gun quite a bit and it has always been 100% according to your earlier post. So if you like the gun and it has always worked for you then why not continue using it? Take it out and find that point in the system where the gun fails to fire and use that as a benchmark for minimum grip.

    Glocks and some other guns are known to malfunction when "limp wristed" but people still carry them. Kind of the same deal here.



    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Borderland View Post
    I used to have four series 80 Colts. I just sold two of them. I shot all of them frequently. I recently purchased a S70 Colt. I'm not seeing a lot of difference in the triggers. I believe if one wants, a S80 can be converted to S70, but I'm not sure there would be enough difference to warrant the swap. My S80 Gold Cup has a decent trigger.
    Someone makes (EGW maybe?) a spacer piece to plug the slot in the frame once the lifter piece is removed.

    Here it is. Available from Brownell's:

    https://www.brownells.com/handgun-pa...prod13121.aspx

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Tokarev; 01-02-2021 at 09:59 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borderland View Post
    I used to have four series 80 Colts. I just sold two of them. I shot all of them frequently. I recently purchased a S70 Colt. I'm not seeing a lot of difference in the triggers. I believe if one wants, a S80 can be converted to S70, but I'm not sure there would be enough difference to warrant the swap. My S80 Gold Cup has a decent trigger.
    Of the different firing pin safety systems on 1911s, I think the Colt S80 setup is the best. I've come to appreciate having it on my carry gun and S80 guns can have very good triggers. It's slightly more of a pain when doing a complete disassembly/reassembly of the pistol, but it's not too bad. I like the simplicity of the Series 70 guns but S80 has its place.

  9. #39
    Site Supporter Ichiban's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    You've used the gun quite a bit and it has always been 100% according to your earlier post. So if you like the gun and it has always worked for you then why not continue using it? Take it out and find that point in the system where the gun fails to fire and use that as a benchmark for minimum grip.

    Glocks and some other guns are known to malfunction when "limp wristed" but people still carry them. Kind of the same deal here.

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
    Shhhhhhh! Your messing with my rationalization for getting a Dan Wesson ECP.

  10. #40
    Site Supporter JRV's Avatar
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    I’m not sure I’ve seen a “design flaw” in the Swartz system. It looks more like a QC problem that causes timing issues within some samples of the Kimbers.

    A revolver being out-of-time from the factory, dropping the hammer before full lock-up, is a QC issue, not a design flaw. Seems like a grip safety can be fitted such that it requires less throw or the same throw to clear the FPB than it needs to clear the trigger bow. Sounds like some folks have examples of guns that do just that.
    Well, you may be a man. You may be a leprechaun. Only one thing’s for sure… you’re in the wrong basement.

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