Swartz passive firing pin safety issues: be informed

[farscott]

I'm sure a bunch of us know what an actual Series 70 gun is, but even Colt refers to their pistols lacking a firing pin safety as Series 70 guns nowadays. Granted, modern Colts don't have a Collet bushing -- but the Series 70 / Series 80 terminology is a convenient way to distinguish between guns with no firing pin safety and those with one -- at least when it comes to Colts.

It's no big deal.

I find Colt's use of the terms exceedingly inconsistent. The Series '70 marking originally meant the Accurizor barrel and corresponding collet barrel bushing. The Series '80 added the firing pin safety, while keeping the Series '70 barrel and bushing. Then Colt abandoned the Series '70 barrel and bushing and still called the guns Series '80. Clear as mud except for pistols with the Series '90 designation, including the Colt Double Eagle and the Defender, which both have Series '80 firing pin safeties and are otherwise quite a bit different. And now Colt calls guns without the firing pin Series '70, calls guns with the firing pin safety Series '80, but still markets the Series '90 for the Defender.

[Robinson]

I find Colt's use of the terms exceedingly inconsistent. The Series '70 marking originally meant the Accurizor barrel and corresponding collet barrel bushing. The Series '80 added the firing pin safety, while keeping the Series '70 barrel and bushing. Then Colt abandoned the Series '70 barrel and bushing and still called the guns Series '80. Clear as mud except for pistols with the Series '90 designation, including the Colt Double Eagle and the Defender, which both have Series '80 firing pin safeties and are otherwise quite a bit different. And now Colt calls guns without the firing pin Series '70, calls guns with the firing pin safety Series '80, but still markets the Series '90 for the Defender.

Colt more or less gave in to the common use of the terms. You have to keep in mind that "1911" really was never (historically) a label Colt used for their own guns -- that label is just a shortened version of the original military designation. Colt has always preferred the terms "Government Model", "Commander", "CCO", etc... But everyone calls a 1911 a "1911" so Colt might as well do it too. Same with the Series 70 / Series 80 labels -- Colt uses those labels the way they do because people know what they mean even if their usage isn't technically correct.

[deputyG23]

For those of you who use 1911 pistols for police work, are the firing pin safety models mandated by policy for most of you?

[Bucky]

S&W used a different design, though it was also actuated by the grip safety, developed by in-house engineer Richard Mochak ( https://patents.google.com/patent/US6374526B1/en ).
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I can attest to the fact it sucks just as much, maybe worse. I had a 9mm Smith. I let an acquaintance shoot it. Click, rack, click, rack, click. His grip was such that he was disengaging the grip safety just enough to unblock the trigger, but not fully release the FPS.

Now you can talk proper grip all you want, but when the SHTF, a perfect grip isn’t guaranteed even by the best shooters.

[Ned Christiansen]

Guys, allow me to update this a little. I don't see a lot of Kimbers but when I do, and when I can, I test for this. I watch for officers carrying 1911's in Patrol Rifle classes and there are sometimes a few a year. There are two Chicago-area departments that issue, I'm not saying authorize, I'm saying they issue, 1911's. Not Kimbers, but just to illustrate the point that the 1911 is not dead in the law enforcement world. A lot of guys carry them and as it happens a lot of them that I run into are real shooters but often they are not deep into the mechanics of their guns. The one in the YT vids is one of these. I've run into maybe half a dozen more since then which was I believe summer of 2018. The rate of failure continues to be over 50%. I was contacted by a guy out west who manages guns for one or more large departments where 1911's are authorized and he says he finds the same malady at the same rate.

In fairness I will add that I personally experienced a failure with the Colt Series 80 system. It was due to a very large, single grain of sand, a baby pebble almost, blocking the firing pin plunger. I discovered it after a day of Lake Superior beach combing. Knowing the gun had been exposed to sand, that evening prior to cleaning I unloaded and attempted to dryfire it, and it would not drop the hammer. I could maybe have forced it but I didn't. But that was a failure due to foreign material, not due to "it's made that way". Still, a lesson.

Moving on to inertia firing, Drake Oldham's 1911 drop testing should be noted by all who carry a 1911. I recently saw a lengthy article in a technical journal where this was studied in greater depth. The authors in fact quote Drake's work (yay Drake!) and their results tracked with his.

I'd love to see even more testing on this, to include Series 80 vs/ Series II systems in muzzle-down drops. It always seemed to me like in a muzzle-down drop, inertia would also tend to compress the grip safety which would render a grip-safety-actuated safety system ineffective.

[Tokarev]

I'd love to see even more testing on this, to include Series 80 vs/ Series II systems in muzzle-down drops.

Have you seen any galling or other issues with the titanium firing pins used by Ruger and Springfield Armory? These would seem to be about the best route especially when combined with a bit stronger spring.

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[Ned Christiansen]

They are quite loose enough that I feel pretty safe in saying they would never gall. But-- the one time I tried a Ti FP in a 1911, I got misfires. Granted it was with some Brazilian surplus ammo but it was "misfires 80%" with Ti and "never misfires" with the standard FP. That was enough to turn me off from Ti FP's, especially when it's an inertia FP like the 1911's. Add an extra-strong spring and it sure seems like a good formula for misfires, and yet-- I have not heard of anything like a chronic problem. Add a shorter mainspring and heavier mainspring cap and you have the Springfield ILS system, which in theory would exacerbate the issue (my opinion). But Springfield must have got it figured out right because they seem to work.

A Ti FP ought to work well in something like an AR15 where the firing pin is positively pushed by the hammer until it's bottomed out. But.... there I don't think the benefit is worth the added delicacy. I tried one and the FP tip chipped in pretty short order.

If we could make an inertia FP that weighted exactly nothing, it would have no inertia. I would stop moving as soon as the hammer stopped on the FP stop. So it follows that less weight gives less inertia, increasing the chance of light primer hits. Of course, if we could make it weigh 40 pounds that wouldn't work either. I don't know what FP weight is "perfect" but "standard" must be pretty close. I do favor a lighter firing train up to but excluding the FP. I think a lightened hammer is a good thing, I have proven this to myself by (going back to that Brazilian ammo years ago) making misfire-prone ammo less misfire-prone with a radically lightened hammer. But that was an experiment and it's not like I think every 1911 has to have the hammer radically lightened. I have one 1911 with a Ti hammer strut that has held up well but that's more of an ongoing long-term experiment and I don't use them outside of this.

[Tokarev]

@Ned Christiansen

Have you tried "tuning" the Kimber parts? Elongating the pusher/lifter piece or removing some of the blockage piece in the slide? Neither mod might completely remove the potential for a blocked FP but it might be a step it the right direction.

The "easy button" would be to remove the safety parts from the gun but that's probably not an option for most LE especially those with guns owned by the department.

[Tokarev]

They are quite loose enough that I feel pretty safe in saying they would never gall. But-- the one time I tried a Ti FP in a 1911, I got misfires. Granted it was with some Brazilian surplus ammo but it was "misfires 80%" with Ti and "never misfires" with the standard FP. That was enough to turn me off from Ti FP's, especially when it's an inertia FP like the 1911's. Add an extra-strong spring and it sure seems like a good formula for misfires, and yet-- I have not heard of anything like a chronic problem. Add a shorter mainspring and heavier mainspring cap and you have the Springfield ILS system, which in theory would exacerbate the issue (my opinion). But Springfield must have got it figured out right because they seem to work.

Galling is the only thing I think I've read that is a potential pitfall of the titanium firing pin. Has it happened or is it an Internet boogeyman along the lines of cast frames and MIM parts? Sure. Problems can happen but are they common occurrences?

Going off personal experience with a few Springfield and Ruger guns; they seem to have the mass and spring weights worked out. Granted most of the 45 ammo I've ever shot in my life has been some form of reload but the two Ruger 9mm 1911s I own have seen a decent amount of US commercial ammo with no issues.

EDIT--I assume Ruger and SA have tested their 1911s to meet SAAMI drop tests. Ruger especially seeing as how they're known to be fairly aware that they are an easy target for litigation.

[Ned Christiansen]

Lengthening the lifter makes it harder or impossible to get the slide on. I have (reluctantly) fixed several by removing material from the FP block-- big pain-in-neck and then you have to re-zero since the block lives under the rear sight. The FP block itself is a delicate part with some very thin sections so it's kinda hard to hold on to. It's not something I would ever offer as a service but I do think "KsomeKoneK" should.

Maybe it should be mentioned that if we were to take a Series II gun that did not have the issue, and "desensitize" the grip safety, the issue would probably be induced. I never talked to the factory about it but I think they should issue testing instructions and then fix all the ones that fail.

I've never heard of a Ti FP galling.