Hi-tech coated cast bullets in a carbine?

[willie]

You know what you're doing. One significant variable for you is coating vs traditional lube. If coating does not work, trying the same bullet in traditional lube version is an option. With the latter, some vendors offer a diameter option like .357, .358, or .359. Regarding shape, round nose flat point and lbt profiles have excellent accuracy reputations.

Marlin rifles traditionally had micro-groove rifling which did not lend itself to cast bullet load development. I urge you to verify your gun's rifling. If you later try bullets with traditional lube, consider ordering .359 diameter. If these do not do well, you can run them through an inexpensive Lee lead bullet size die to reduce diameter to .358. My guess is that .359 is a better choice. The reason is that your Marlin rifle and Ruger revolver will most likely have larger bore diameters.

Commercial cast bullets are usually too hard. Lube types vary. Softer lube is better than hard. Commercial casters tend to use hard lubes so that the lube remains within lube grooves. The easy way out for you is to buy cowboy action bullets cast of softer alloy. With these develop accurate .38 velocity loads. This method facilitates the easiest way to select a suitable bullet and accurate load. You may find that these same bullets will do well for faster velocities. If not, you have determined essential information.

If your lubed bullets are leading, try this. Buy a bottle of Lee Alox type lube and dilute it with mineral spirits. Mix 50/50 and dip the regular lubed bullet in this. Let dry and load. This mix can be further diluted and then applied with a shake/bake method.

If your rifle will not shoot jacketed bullets accurately, neither will it do well with cast bullets.

[4given]

You know what you're doing. One significant variable for you is coating vs traditional lube. If coating does not work, trying the same bullet in traditional lube version is an option. With the latter, some vendors offer a diameter option like .357, .358, or .359. Regarding shape, round nose flat point and lbt profiles have excellent accuracy reputations.

Marlin rifles traditionally had micro-groove rifling which did not lend itself to cast bullet load development. I urge you to verify your gun's rifling. If you later try bullets with traditional lube, consider ordering .359 diameter. If these do not do well, you can run them through an inexpensive Lee lead bullet size die to reduce diameter to .358. My guess is that .359 is a better choice. The reason is that your Marlin rifle and Ruger revolver will most likely have larger bore diameters.

Commercial cast bullets are usually too hard. Lube types vary. Softer lube is better than hard. Commercial casters tend to use hard lubes so that the lube remains within lube grooves. The easy way out for you is to buy cowboy action bullets cast of softer alloy. With these develop accurate .38 velocity loads. This method facilitates the easiest way to select a suitable bullet and accurate load. You may find that these same bullets will do well for faster velocities. If not, you have determined essential information.

If your lubed bullets are leading, try this. Buy a bottle of Lee Alox type lube and dilute it with mineral spirits. Mix 50/50 and dip the regular lubed bullet in this. Let dry and load. This mix can be further diluted and then applied with a shake/bake method.

If your rifle will not shoot jacketed bullets accurately, neither will it do well with cast bullets.

Thanks for the tips! The 158gr SWC's I have are sized .358. They shoot great in my S&W M66. I'll give them a whirl and see how they do. I haven't slugged my barrel yet but will if I don't get the results I want with the bullets I have on hand. You are the second experianced person that has told me that the Marlins tend to like fat lead bullets.

I have generally had good results with the XTP in handguns. I'm seeking to duplicate the Hornady factory load with the XTP's. They list 1250 FPS on the label. Don't know the length of the test barrel. I'll use the factory load for S/D purposes while wintering in Arizona and California.

[4given]

Thanks for the tips! The 158gr SWC's I have are sized .358. They shoot great in my S&W M66. I'll give them a whirl and see how they do. I haven't slugged my barrel yet but will if I don't get the results I want with the bullets I have on hand. You are the second experianced person that has told me that the Marlins tend to like fat lead bullets.

I have generally had good results with the XTP in handguns. I'm seeking to duplicate the Hornady factory load with the XTP's. They list 1250 FPS on the label. Don't know the length of the test barrel. I'll use the factory load for S/D purposes while wintering in Arizona and California.

Well the 158gr .358 cast were pretty dismal. I'm going to try some XTP's next. Probably 140gr and 158gr FP XTP depending on what is available.

[willie]

I fear that you will continue to get these results with cast bullets. As you peruse cast bullet vendors, you might look at 180 grain offerings. If you wish to read cast bullet data derived from lever rifle tests, pm me with your email for a relevant link.

Eventually you will find a suitable load for your rifle, but chances are it will be with a jacketed bullet. This statement is less true with .44 and .45 pistol caliber rifles. For decades I have thought that an accomplished revolver shot could hit with his handgun the same target that he could hit with a pistol caliber lever rifle. Note this statement is an opinion.
The lever rifle shines when chambered for a rifle cartridge. The lowly 30-30 is one example. It is light weight, short and handy, and can produce tight 3 shot 100 yard groups. 5 shot groups tend to open up due to heat unless fired slowly.

[willie]

MidwayUSA sells a Hunters Supply .358 190 grain cast bullet that should work well in a .357 Mag lever rifle. In magnum cases you might try 4 to 4.5 grains of Bullseye. The fast burning powder when it ignites will bump up the bullet to fit the bore. This bullet has a longer bearing surface and ample grease grooves.

[Lester Polfus]

Well the 158gr .358 cast were pretty dismal. I'm going to try some XTP's next. Probably 140gr and 158gr FP XTP depending on what is available.

What size groups were you getting?

[4given]

What size groups were you getting?

I sighted in at 30 yards just to get it on paper using the 158 gr coated cast bullet with a medium charge of Universal. Once on paper, I shot a couple of groups of the same load at 30 yards just to see what happened. They ranged from 5" - 7".
Since they were so bad, I shot my test loads at 30 yards. My test loads were the .358 dia 158gr cast coated starting with 14.2 and ending wit 14.9 gr of 2400. The only halfway decent group was with 14.9gr 2400. It was about 1" if you you don't count the flyer, 2" or so if you do. Still at 30 yards... not too impressive. The other 2400 test loads were not nearly as good. I have attached a picture of the best group.

I just ordered some 158 gr FP/xtp and 140gr hp/xtp to try. At some point I will contact Missouri Bullet and see about getting some cast bullets sized .359 to try.


Back to the drawing board ...

[4given]

I fear that you will continue to get these results with cast bullets. As you peruse cast bullet vendors, you might look at 180 grain offerings. If you wish to read cast bullet data derived from lever rifle tests, pm me with your email for a relevant link.

Eventually you will find a suitable load for your rifle, but chances are it will be with a jacketed bullet. This statement is less true with .44 and .45 pistol caliber rifles. For decades I have thought that an accomplished revolver shot could hit with his handgun the same target that he could hit with a pistol caliber lever rifle. Note this statement is an opinion.
The lever rifle shines when chambered for a rifle cartridge. The lowly 30-30 is one example. It is light weight, short and handy, and can produce tight 3 shot 100 yard groups. 5 shot groups tend to open up due to heat unless fired slowly.

Thanks for all the great info willie. I'm going to try the jacketed bullets before I try any more cast. Have you tried any of the plated bullets? I know that xtreme and maybe some others have a thicker plated option for higher velocities. I have thought about a 30-30. Ya never know. I'd probably just do a bolt action scout rifle with a detachable magazine in .308 or .223

[willie]

I've not used plated bullets in rifles. The Marlin Owners Forum might be one place to consult for more information. I don't recall the details in the thread but will say that when shooting cast bullets, you must begin with a clean bore and can't switch between cast and jacketed without cleaning bore. That goes for trying to shoot groups with jacketed also.

[Borderland]

I fear that you will continue to get these results with cast bullets. As you peruse cast bullet vendors, you might look at 180 grain offerings. If you wish to read cast bullet data derived from lever rifle tests, pm me with your email for a relevant link.

Eventually you will find a suitable load for your rifle, but chances are it will be with a jacketed bullet. This statement is less true with .44 and .45 pistol caliber rifles. For decades I have thought that an accomplished revolver shot could hit with his handgun the same target that he could hit with a pistol caliber lever rifle. Note this statement is an opinion.
The lever rifle shines when chambered for a rifle cartridge. The lowly 30-30 is one example. It is light weight, short and handy, and can produce tight 3 shot 100 yard groups. 5 shot groups tend to open up due to heat unless fired slowly.

I've shot a lot of XTP's in a 357 rifle. 125 gr thru 180 gr. and lots of different powder combinations. I was never really satisfied with the rifle/cartridge combination to give good accuracy at 100 yds. By good accuracy I mean 3 MOA or better. Truthfully, I never experimented with cast or coated lead as I was loading for around 1300-1600 fps. I've heard and read that jacketed bullets will perform the best at those velocities so I never messed around with cast. My understanding about cast bullets is that they don't do well in rifles above 1200 fps. But again, I have no experience with that. I have to go with your theory about rifle cartridges (bottle neck) giving better accuracy. That's my experience anyway and the reason I don't own a 357 mag rifle anymore. I would much rather try to get good accuracy with a 35 Remington than a 357 mag. shooting the same 158 gr XTP bullet. This is only my opinion based on hundreds of rounds fired load testing a 357 rifle. There are many people who shoot 357 rifles and enjoy them but if I go down that road again I'll have a rifle cartridge like a 35 Rem. or 30-30.