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Thread: The Case for a 20" Shotgun, No Side Saddle, Non-Flite Control Buck

  1. #21
    This isn't a new idea. Col. Askins used a modified Remington Model 11 in gunfights. According to this article it had a 22" barrel and 8 shot extended magazine. You have to sort through the article because it talks about other gunfights that do not involve a shotgun, too.

    https://m.facebook.com/1151375219972...5684888609150/

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    (you might need a diagram)
    Nope. I'm from Kentucky, so it was natural for me...

    Thanks!
    I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Lester Polfus View Post
    Nope. I'm from Kentucky, so it was natural for me...

    Thanks!
    This entire exchange gave me a good laugh on a stressful day. Props to you both.

  4. #24
    Junior VP of Enabling RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Interestingly enough, I've been thinking of going the opposite direction and opting for a Remington Tac-13 with a folding brace and RMR installed. I figure a smaller package that is easier to move inside with, but still delivers plenty of power out of the end may be the way to go.

    An 18" barreled 12-gauge with buckshot remains my "shelter-in-place" weapon of choice, but a light equipped handgun remains my movement weapon of choice. Hence thinking about a light equipped Tac-13 to bridge that gap.

    PS: There is something to longer barrel + longer mag = more comfort. My wife's gun of choice is a 21" 870 Youth in 20-gauge. With a Nordic +4 extension it, it holds 10 rounds of Spartan #1 9-pellet buckshot. 3-dot sights on the vent rib + her running it like a sewing machine. I wouldn't fuck with her if she has that boomstick in her hands, she WILL fuck someone up with it. Whenever I pick it up, I find the balance is great and it feels good to me, the extra couple of rounds of bone and flesh removing buckshot makes me feel more better too.
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  5. #25
    The shorter guns are very handy but I'm still stuck on 20" 590's because I do like the capacity.
    Mine goes in/out of my truck a lot and I made that easy with a side folder. Most people hate them, I love them. For shooting not just totin around.
    So there's that compromise (that will only appeal to a few) available.
    I'm not giving up additional ammo on the gun. Use velcro cards and you can leave them off if you want. I use a shotgun quite a bit but never, to this point, inside the house.
    So my view is slanted toward regular, rural, outdoor, practical uses.

  6. #26
    Down in English Voodoo Baldanders's Avatar
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    Jul 2017
    My choices are long (FP6 with 20" barrel and 8 round extended.) or really long (Stevens single-shot with a 24" or 26" barrel, not sure). That is not due to a decision making process of any type, one was a great deal, the other inherited.

    I wouldn't mind something shorter in the house, but I can't see the advantage once I am outside my door. I'm not pursuing any threats, weight isn't an issue.

    I might move up to Flite Control someday, but cheap Federal 9-pellet 00 or reduced recoil 8 pellet loads work fine at 25 paces for me patterning on paper. I wouldn't want to rely on it past that, however. If I get a sidesaddle, it will be loaded with slugs.

    Not that my opinion is worth anything on this subject. Interesting thread.
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  7. #27
    Old man yelling at cloud OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlongJohnson View Post
    I think it was @GJM who recently compared dimensions and weight of the 1301 to other options, including an NFA Benelli and a 20 ga. With the light weight and short length of the 1301, and the advantage in load development that 12ga has, it's pretty difficult to construct an argument for anything else. DB's comments on the recent P&S about duck guns (available variants of the 1301, it turns out) vs tactical looking stuff may be relevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Leaving aside a brace configuration, the 1301 has made 20 gauge shotguns obsolete, as they are similar in weight, recoil similarly or less, and offer all the advantages of a 12 in ammo development.
    Just realized this is the OP's second thread on almost the same topic in a very short time, and the post I referenced was in his other thread.
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  8. #28
    I've thought about this a great deal, and I've come to a differing conclusion than most of you.

    The first point I'd like to make is that inside ten yards, pattern spread with the flite-control wad is negligible. Therefore the same precision is required to shoot the buckshot load as the slug.

    Armored home invaders are not unheard of, the Federal TruBall reduced recoil slug delivers over 1200 ftlbs energy inside 25 yards. My testing of slugs indicates no vest penetration, but pretty sure it would knock a bad guy on his ass, allowing me to close for another targeted shot if needed. FBI protocol through heavy clothing was 12.75, with 97.78 weight retention. On the other hand, the LE 132 and LE 133 both go over 20" in gelatin through heavy clothing.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...7vaIeiE5Tf0_O6

    For inside the home defense I'd rather manage one projectile than eight or nine, outside the same deal.

    As for the RDS, on a home defense shotgun, using slugs, I don't want to have to deal with offset. Outside, at range, before the RDS gives me any real speed advantage, you are beyond reasonable effective range for buckshot.

    JMO, worth what you paid.

  9. #29
    Moderator BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Lehr View Post
    My testing of slugs indicates no vest penetration, but pretty sure it would knock a bad guy on his ass
    Some people fall down because they think they are supposed to, but it won't physically knock them over. Note some people fall over when shot at, but it's nothing you can count on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    Maybe with talented students I would lube up with baby oil and then go at it.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    Some people fall down because they think they are supposed to, but it won't physically knock them over. Note some people fall over when shot at, but it's nothing you can count on.
    It is true, at least according to Dr. Martin Fackler, that the primary reason folks stop/fall after being shot is the psychological response.

    That being said, I don't know if you've ever shot slugs at vests draped over weighted targets, but they move. In my case I used upright tire carcasses with the vest strapped tightly around the front portion, weighted with bricks. The slug doesn't penetrate the vest, significant deformation of the tire, and you have to go pick it up.

    I'm pretty sure you'd fall.
    Last edited by Dan Lehr; 03-26-2020 at 06:18 PM.

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