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Thread: The Case for a 20" Shotgun, No Side Saddle, Non-Flite Control Buck

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by 03RN View Post
    Do you think 3 rds of 762x39 at close range would knock a person down if wearing plates?
    Variables that I would consider are, split time between each round, and the fact that hard plates have no back face deformation. Additionally, intuitively I feel that there is substantial energy lost by the round fragmenting, rather than being delivered to the wearer of the plate. Plus, read stories from guys who took hits on hard plates, so in most cases, probably not.

    I was talking of soft armor, and, for the record, I said I was pretty sure. I've seen several patrol car videos of guys taking unexpected hits from pistols. In the totally unaware cases they seem to stagger and then continue.

    My thought was that if they stagger momentarily when being struck with a pistol round that has approximately 1/3 the KE of a slug, stumbling backwards and perhaps falling when hit with a slug isn't unthinkable.

    That being said, a guy prepared to take a hit is a different matter. I've talked with guys who took pistol rounds during entries, not a pause.

    A lot of variables, but again, intuitively I think most folks would probably stumble back and fall.

    The KE numbers involved would lead us to believe that the guy should be flung through a plate glass window like in a movie, but we know that isn't the way it works.

    For now, I tired of being beat upon, so I'm taking a break. Semper Fi.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Lehr View Post
    The KE numbers involved would lead us to believe that the guy should be flung through a plate glass window like in a movie, but we know that isn't the way it works.
    I think this is only because shootings tend to happen away from large glass windows. It's been shown, in the physics literature, that proximity to plate glass increases the universal gravitational constant, making inelastic collisions impart more force.

  3. #103
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
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    Nov 2011
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    I can think of lots of reasons to have a sling on a shotgun. Everything isnít binary. I can think of lots of reasons, given that Iíve already gone and dug the damn thing out, why I might want to have both hands free.

    I would assume that thereíd be some way to tie a sling down to a semi-auto shotgun like you can with an AR so that itís both not in the way but easily deplorable?

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    I can think of lots of reasons to have a sling on a shotgun. Everything isnít binary. I can think of lots of reasons, given that Iíve already gone and dug the damn thing out, why I might want to have both hands free.

    I would assume that thereíd be some way to tie a sling down to a semi-auto shotgun like you can with an AR so that itís both not in the way but easily deplorable?
    Freudian slip? Lol! ^^^

    My favorite sling management item lately is the $7 elastic piece from Blue Force Gear. Would work on any shotgun as well as it does a rifle.

    As for the OP, my only shotgun for years was the Mossy 590 with 20Ē bbl. I could press it into service for indoor work if I had to but it would the my first choice. I also bought it not long after I could legally do so and freely admit the fact that the Marines issued it helped sway me. Lol! My next shotgun however will be a Beretta 1301 Tactical.

  5. #105
    Member GearFondler's Avatar
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    May 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
    My favorite sling management item lately is the $7 elastic piece from Blue Force Gear. Would work on any shotgun as well as it does a rifle.
    I made mine from shock-cord and a cord lock I had in my spare parts drawer...


  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by 03RN View Post
    Do you think 3 rds of 762x39 at close range would knock a person down if wearing plates?
    Bullet impacting target can't have more energy than when it left the muzzle, unless you've got rocket assisted projectiles, so unless recoil of firing a 3 round burst would knock target down there is no way being hit by bullets from burst could do so.

    I suppose if person was really off balance on the toes of one foot it might manage to tip person over.

    Richard Davis, founder of Second Chance vests, used to do demos of him being shot while wearing vest, so did Chuck Taylor.

    Cant remember for sure which one, perhaps both, had themselves shot with 308 while standing on tiptoes and only effect it had was they had to settle on to entire foot off of toes to maintain balance.

    So perhaps if 1+ shooters hit one person with multiple synchronized bursts from same angle from belt feds you could knock them over, but I suspect the falling over would rather academic question to all involved in such an event. ^_^

    Edited to add:

    I believe John Barsness & maybe Ross Seyfried have written about tests they have done with a hanging duffel bag or such filled with 50 or 100lbs of sand and shot with real elephant calibers, 375 H&H & up, in addition to more normal calibers and the bag will hardly move.

    Would be fairly easy test to duplicate, if bullet impact won't move 50 lbs hanging on rope much don't see how it would knock over a 200+ pound person.
    Last edited by Dov; 03-29-2020 at 01:32 PM.

  7. #107
    Attachment 50874This is my favorite sling for field use, because I can carry the shotgun with it, but quickly remove it and stow it in my front pocket. Been doing it that way for coming up on twenty years. This is from ten years ago. Vang 14 inch 870, Brockman sights and action work, NP3, Vang elastic cuff attached with Velcro. Scandium Bowen 329 in HPG chest pack and LEM IWB behind the hip.

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    This is last summer. Times have changed ó HK LEM in a JM AIWB and a 14 inch Benelli M2 with a micro.

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    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  8. #108
    Site Supporter misanthropist's Avatar
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    Pump guns are about the only application I really like single point slings for - I have one on my Valtro and one on my 870. You can pick the gun up and let the sling hang and it's not too much in the way. Obviously, for a field sling, I wouldn't go that route. But my experience of, for example, running the 9-hole-wall with a VTAC 2-point, and the subsequent need to replace some of the muzzle-end hardware, got me out of that game.

    Incidentally Canada, through a quirk of our gun laws, is the short tactical shotgun capital of the world. I learned this from a consultation with the former editor of a Canadian gun magazine, who based his decision on casually looking at what all the gun stores were selling one day.

    The box mag fed versions always sell out right away - I know some people feel this defeats the handling of the shotgun, but potentially this serves a purpose. That Valtro of mine carries 7x00 buck, and I can throw another 7 in my pocket, and another 7 in my other pocket, and that is getting to be serious artillery. I believe that's a 14" barrel, although one issue with those guns in particular is the 13.5" length of pull, combined with difficult-to-source replacements so you really hesitate to cut one up. Also, the receiver is pretty long to handle the mag, so your left hand is in the next time zone while running it. I've been looking for a spare stock to hack down, or an adapter, or something, but I don't think there are many Valtros in the US. With an 11 LOP it would be pretty amazing, though.

    Conversely, I have a couple of turkish pumps which are extremely compact. I was going to write this post earlier but chrome crashed and it wasn't saved but that turns out to be a good thing: I was going to say they are 12" 870 clones, which, here, are the legal equivalent of tennis rackets...but I checked and they are actually 9" guns, and not 870 clones. Still, the legal equivalent of a pineapple upside-down cake. At any rate the handling is, of course, pretty incredible. But they're 3+1 guns, ergo, don't miss, or don't miss very often, I guess.

    No slings on those; they're just too handy to mess with. One is a stainless "marine" variant...great boat gun.

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