The Case for a 20" Shotgun, No Side Saddle, Non-Flite Control Buck

[Duelist]

It's not all psychological --- think of someone getting knocked out in boxing: the puncher remains standing while the punchee falls. So no it wouldn't be knocked back like yanked like a bungee cord, but knocked over?

No, I don’t think they would be knocked over by 1-3 hits on a rifle-rated plate by a 7.62x39 or 5.45x39 at room distances. Because I have several friends and acquaintances who experienced exactly that terrifying moment in their lives when we were in Afghanistan or Iraq, or when they were after I stopped going to such fun places, and none of them were knocked down by those impacts. They may have fallen for other reasons, but none of them were knocked over by impacts on SAPI plates from those rifle rounds.

I am not saying no one ever would, that there are no reasons for a fall after an impact, etc, but that level of rifle impact on a plate will not knock over an adult human just from the impact alone. There have to be other factors involved before falling over happens, and it will not be the impact knocking them over.

One illustrative anecdote: a guy was on point going through a door and took a three-round 7.62x39 burst to the SAPI plate. He was not knocked back or over - he kept moving forward into the room and killed the person who shot him. A bullet fragment took a chunk out of his nose. The blood on his face is why the medic pulled him aside and started his assessment, not the fact that he’d been shot three times, because he was the only one who knew it until the medic started asking him questions.

Some observations from hunting unarmored deer: the only “knock-downs” I have seen have been central nervous system knock-outs. Head and spine or spine-connected bone hits (specifically, upper scapula hits) have immediately knocked deer down. Bullets that pass through the lungs but miss any bone connected directly to the central nervous system do not typically knock deer down. They die, sure, but the hunter may not even see the actual bullet impact, or only see a puff of dust off the hide, and the deer may run a significant distance before blood loss causes a loss of consciousness which then causes the deer to fall. I have seen this with various rounds. Unless the actual bullet causes significant enough trauma to prevent it (such as when a 7mm Rem Mag tears an 80# yearling or doe up), when the central nervous system is not involved, deer do not typically fall down from impacts of any rifle round, either.

So no, I really don’t think a 7.62x39 impact on a rifle plate will even significantly move a person, let alone knock them over. If they fall, it will be for some other reason than the impact of the 123gr bullet.

[GJM]

Correct. I have done the NFA process before.

Thank you,

I have multiple short barrel 870 shotguns. When I looked into converting the Mossy to 14, thinking the location of the safety would be better for my left handed wife, I learned it was much more complicated than doing a chop on an 870. It has been long enough I don’t recall the details as to why, but it was per Hans Vang.

[03RN]

You’re kidding, right? He’d have a bad day, but would only fall based on a psychological stop.

No, seriously asking the poster who said a person getting shot in a vest with a slug would fall down.

Ive never been shot with a slug but did take the aforementioned 762s to my front plate. It did not knock me down.

[Duelist]

No, seriously asking the poster who said a person getting shot in a vest with a slug would fall down.

Ive never been shot with a slug but did take the aforementioned 762s to my front plate. It did not knock me down.

Much more succinctly put than my novel.

[SouthNarc]

@SouthNarc

What kind of lamp is that? I’d like to get me one of those!

Also, where do the guns stay when your not home? Do you put them in a default gun safe or something like a shot lock? My gunsafe takes a bit too long to open since I have it hidden behind stuff in a closet so locking up my shotgun in there everyday is burdensome but I don’t want to come home to find a burglar holding my shotgun either

EVERYTHING is locked down when I'm not home.

[Doc_Glock]

I zeroed and function tested a stock Gen 1 1301T with 10 Brenekke slugs, 5 PMC slugs and 5 Flite Control Buck.
I have also been working the shotgun dry in movement as noted by @SouthNarc above.

Observations:

-That was quite enough shooting slugs for the day.

-If I have to do any movement in the house I am just taking the pistol. It is so much more natural for me.

-I like the fact that I can keep the pistol in a fully charged and loaded condition in holster in quick access safe. I would not feel comfortable leaving a shotgun or any long gun chambered and honestly don’t want the noise of chambering one in middle of the night investigation mode, then dealing with unloading after the fact especially when most of these are false alarms.

All the above to say I really like @SouthNarc ‘s set up above. Shotgun for hunkering down, pistol to investigate. Now what to grab if you -know- you are going to trouble....

[GearFondler]

All the above to say I really like @SouthNarc ‘s set up above. Shotgun for hunkering down, pistol to investigate. Now what to grab if you -know- you are going to trouble....

Ideally, both.

And SouthNarc's pic just convinced me I need to get off my ass and stipple my Aridus handguard... That looks sexy and useful.

[GJM]

Bed side pic. 1301 with no saddle for holding and short gun for moving.

If this was an art contest, I would crown Craig as the winner, based on his artistic composition. However, I think he is running a bit light. This is mine, and feels right for the times.

[rob_s]

My 870 has pretty much always just stayed locked up in the main safe. The closest it, or any other long gun, has come to being used for its intended purpose has been pre- or post-hurricane. Otherwise, it’s one of the several Glock 19s stashed around in various quick-access safes.

Couple of weeks ago I came home, wife and kids were gone, opened up the front door to let the dog out, and sat down on the couch to eat. Heard talking. Sounded like it was IN my yard. We’re on 1.25 acres, fenced, one house in from the end on a 1/2-mile dead end road. I figured I better go look. I went to the big safe, where all the long guns are, and I took out... a Glock 19.

(Turns out is was just my obnoxiously loud neighbor talking to his wife about some inane shit at the fenceline. He saw me, I held the Glock down behind my thigh, and we waved at one another. Not so easy with an 870, although I suppose an 18” would be easier to hide than a 20 )

The fact is, unless I KNOW that there is a problem, and even then maybe, I’m just not dragging out a shotgun or an AR. Even a short one.

The one thing that has me considering a semi-auto shotgun for the home is that the wife is asking. And the only reason she’s specifying a semi auto shotgun is because we shoot sporting clays and that’s what she’s familiar with.

And even then I don’t know that I want to go down that road, and store it in the bedroom like she asks, because I don’t think I want a face full of buckshot when I come back to the bedroom, Glock 19 in hand, after going to see what new mess the raccoons have made that sounded like a hoard of meth-heads trying to break in.

[Duelist]

My 870 has pretty much always just stayed locked up in the main safe. The closest it, or any other long gun, has come to being used for its intended purpose has been pre- or post-hurricane. Otherwise, it’s one of the several Glock 19s stashed around in various quick-access safes.

Couple of weeks ago I came home, wife and kids were gone, opened up the front door to let the dog out, and sat down on the couch to eat. Heard talking. Sounded like it was IN my yard. We’re on 1.25 acres, fenced, one house in from the end on a 1/2-mile dead end road. I figured I better go look. I went to the big safe, where all the long guns are, and I took out... a Glock 19.

(Turns out is was just my obnoxiously loud neighbor talking to his wife about some inane shit at the fenceline. He saw me, I held the Glock down behind my thigh, and we waved at one another. Not so easy with an 870, although I suppose an 18” would be easier to hide than a 20 )

The fact is, unless I KNOW that there is a problem, and even then maybe, I’m just not dragging out a shotgun or an AR. Even a short one.

The one thing that has me considering a semi-auto shotgun for the home is that the wife is asking. And the only reason she’s specifying a semi auto shotgun is because we shoot sporting clays and that’s what she’s familiar with.

And even then I don’t know that I want to go down that road, and store it in the bedroom like she asks, because I don’t think I want a face full of buckshot when I come back to the bedroom, Glock 19 in hand, after going to see what new mess the raccoons have made that sounded like a hoard of meth-heads trying to break in.

I also usually just do what I need to around the home with a handgun. But once in a while ...

A couple of weeks ago, it was late evening and I was lying on my bed, shoes off but still dressed, dozing, while my wife and adult daughter played a game on the rest of the bed. I heard in the distance a flurry of shots. Sounded like 3 or more guns. Then three shots from one gun, spaced about a half second apart. My bird dog, snoozing on the floor next to my side of the bed, jumped up and went to the bedroom door.

I rolled off the bed and stepped to my safe, opened it, and grabbed the AR at the front of the safe, grabbed the top mag off the top of it and put it in the mag well, put the second one in my pocket, and walked around the whole house checking doors and windows and peepholes.

I didn’t go outside. I also didn’t just go with the Glock I had IWB. I wanted my rifle. Was it necessary? Apparently not - nothing happened at my house. But I also didn’t put it away that night.

My wife and daughter didn’t hear the shots. We never found a police report about it either. Just one of those semi-rural Arizona evenings, I guess.

Anyway. If my wife asked me for a semiauto shotgun for her to have in the bedroom for such times, I’d have a fire sale of stuff I like and bought for me so I could get her one. As it is, the only guns she shoots are .22s and her G42, and I don’t remember the last time she carried it.

On the other hand, since your lady already has her clay games gun, until such a time as you break down and get the 1301, can’t her hunker-down gun be her current clay game gun? I would think some communication and prior planning would prevent the face full of buckshot.