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Thread: Take downs against big guys

  1. #1

    Take downs against big guys

    At the end of nogi tonight we did take down king of the mountain. A couple of the rounds I ended up with one of our big guys, +/- 350#. We usually ended up in a FUT and then a scramble. One round I did get double unders and moved to the back but once on the back I didn’t feel comfortable with anything I know. Worked a sit out and couldn’t get good anchors on him or feel like I could move him if I did. I didn’t want to shoot or go low level because I was quite a bit taller than him and I did not want that weight on me in a sprawl.

    Anybody have any go tos against the larger crowd?

  2. #2
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bratch View Post
    At the end of nogi tonight we did take down king of the mountain. A couple of the rounds I ended up with one of our big guys, +/- 350#. We usually ended up in a FUT and then a scramble. One round I did get double unders and moved to the back but once on the back I didn’t feel comfortable with anything I know. Worked a sit out and couldn’t get good anchors on him or feel like I could move him if I did. I didn’t want to shoot or go low level because I was quite a bit taller than him and I did not want that weight on me in a sprawl.

    Anybody have any go tos against the larger crowd?
    This is a very interesting question. I do not train BJJ. In the 90's I trained in some other ad hock defensive tactics that included many elements of Ju and striking. I will get a bit over the line of my lane and relate what worked repeatedly for me in one exhausting session.

    The instructor matched a padded advanced student against me and I was unpadded. He was padded so I could go full bore with the full arsenal. The other student was taller and about 40 lbs heavier. He had a deep martial arts background and was presently at that time in a Golden Gloves boxing program. I didn't know him well, he didn't seem to speak much English or anything actually and I always sensed a bit of a mean streak.

    Anyway I could not hold my ground in the stand up. His striking was so superior I was getting pummeled. But I had done a LOT of training of chokes. So I would shield my jaw/head and shoot for this neck. Real committed shoots and when I got his neck (ie head control) in whatever orientation we were in based on his reaction I would hurl my full weight whichever direction it made sense and his body followed his head and we'd be down and I'd be choking him for all I was worth.

    Instructor would halt it, reset us and repeat. Over and fooking over. I was like the racoon drowning a dog story. It worked repeatedly. Sometimes driving the shoot I'd end with him on his back and me on his chest with buried head and using my forearm to choke him. Sometimes I ended up on my back having spun my weight behind him while having his neck wrapped - him facing more or less up and me behind and under choking for all I was worth.

    Once I had him only on his knees and I was somewhat sprawled but had my left controlling his collar and saw the opp for strikes. It was funny because as I heard my instructor yelling at me "use your knees! use your elbows! use your combinations!" All I was doing was holding his collar with my left and jackhammering rights into the side of his padded face. LOL I was full lizard brain at that point.

    Anyway when the end was mercifully called the instructor asked me what I learned. And I said I'm in deep trouble without my glasses. My chokes worked. And never ever leave my house without my pistol. He LOL'd.

    Anyway, I fully realize I am not a highly trained practitioner and no one will hurt my feelings if they find any of this stupid.
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  4. #4
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    A few things that have worked for me, none of them BJJ legal. What did the Gracies say about how much weight equals one belt? When it's someone who's double your weight, it's time to get medieval on their ass. Kick the side of the knee, IT band, Achilles, junk punch, neck crank, etc. And don't stop attacking or moving.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
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  5. #5
    Not exactly BJJ but I have used a technique learned from Kelly McCann against bigger guys on two occasions in real world violence...

    Get to their side or back and, as hard as you possibly can, bring your leg up and stomp the back of the leg, right where the joint is. This will collapse their base and make them fall to at least one knee. The second time I used it the guy fell on one knee and his momentum caused him to fall down on his side.

    Either way, it gives you an opening and options.

  6. #6
    Practice and refine takedowns that you know. Recognize that it’s just more difficult to take a bigger guy down but it’s harder to do most things against a bigger guy. Isn’t that what bjj is supposed to be about? There’s no magic death touch takedown. With that said look up the leg lace that Renzo did from the rear clinch in his last mma fight.

  7. #7
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    Take downs are for sure the weakest part of my game...and I'm the second smallest dude in my school so I'm following this thread with interest.

    All I can offer is my experience, that back mount on a dude that big just isn't easy. The best hope is to wear him down. Make him chase you, touch his head, get him working. See if you can get him to shoot so you can try to sprawl into a front headlock. Put him on the defensive.

    ....and don't get under him ever.

    Then he'll just smother you and rest while you work hard to get out. Even if you have a good guard, a heavy dude will make it suck, and if he's too big to close your guard on, he'll pass right on into side control easily if he's even sorta good.

    So yeah that's my advice. Don't. Get. Under him. [emoji23]

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Bratch View Post
    At the end of nogi tonight we did take down king of the mountain. A couple of the rounds I ended up with one of our big guys, +/- 350#. We usually ended up in a FUT and then a scramble. One round I did get double unders and moved to the back but once on the back I didn’t feel comfortable with anything I know. Worked a sit out and couldn’t get good anchors on him or feel like I could move him if I did. I didn’t want to shoot or go low level because I was quite a bit taller than him and I did not want that weight on me in a sprawl.

    Anybody have any go tos against the larger crowd?

    What typically happens here is that you did not get your hips under his and therefore did not feel like you could move him. This is a common problem when fighting shorter guys.

    This is the single best takedown from the back I know. Super high percentage, and if it fails, you do not end up in a bad position.



    Note that the ENTIRE time, the thrower's belt line is under the throwee's belt line. This is leverage. Trying to do it when your belt is above their's means you are needing much more strength and power to accomplish the task.
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  9. #9
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Similar to what Cecil showed, I've found that a hip throw from the side (as opposed to the back) will work against larger opponents. I'm 5'7 - 200# - I've thrown guys a foot taller than me outweighing me by 75+, wrap the arms around the abdomen (split seat-belt style if necessary) and move the backside hip in and rotate him over it. Like what Cecil showed you must have your hips lower than his waist line for this to work. Imagine you're throwing his butt over your knee and you're basically in the ballpark.

    I guess maybe that's more of a "knee" trip than a hip throw, but the general idea is there. If it doesn't work, you usually end up rotating him around onto the ground and up on his back or at worst side, not the worst position(s) to be in.

  10. #10
    Hammertime
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    What did the Gracies say about how much weight equals one belt?

    Every thirty pounds and each decade of age disparity equals one belt level difference between otherwise matched opponents.

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