Solid advice on both BCM and “Gamer” ARs.Originally Posted by Clusterfrack
The easy button /LTT equivalent would be a KAC mod 2 16”.
However, BCM, Centurion, SOLGW, SIONICS, Daniel Defense and Geissele all make good quality 16” carbines with free float rails that would be great rifles for you to tweek to your liking. Noveske is OR based and make a great rifle as well.
after I learn more I might be following up with you, if you’re willing. I have benefitted greatly from your experience already in pistols, and I hate to keep asking, but. I definitely don’t want a finicky open type weapon. Reliable and accurate and durable are what I want.
i saw a thread suggesting the geissele super duty as a turn key solution. For my first and maybe my only AR I’d like to go kinda turn key in the way an Ltt is pretty much turn key, or at least come close.
Last edited by Medusa; 03-17-2020 at 12:27 AM.
Since I was mentioned, particularly regarding the AK in competition...
You’re certainly not going to win 3-gun nationals with an AK. Particularly a stock one in 7.62x39. The manual of arms alone is probably enough to put you out of the running. Also (and this will probably be debated by some) The accuracy just isn’t there with the AK. It *could* be yes, but it’s generally not. Even with stock, relatively budget, ARs I’ve found in the past that you can get pretty good accuracy with an optic, good Ammo, and a competent shooter (that last bit is the hardest to come by, it seems). However, you can at least be competitive in local matches and a competent shooter with good completion experience and strategy will beat a LOT of mocked up AR shooters, and there is a ton of satisfaction in that.
The other thing is that if you get to the point of wanting to jock up the gun, you’re going to be more limited with the AK. Yes, things are better own than when I did my “365 days of AK” experiment back in 2008, but they are also better now with the AR than they were then, and the Ak just doesn’t really lend itself to modifications and improvements the way the AR does. But, again, winning with a limp can be fun.
If, however, you are looking at double duty of competition and protection, the AR clearly wins. As someone else mentioned here, at one time when you could get a serviceable Ak for $300 and a good AR cost $900 then there were other factors. Now that the price of a decent Ak has gone up and a decent AR has gone done, they are both so close as to not really have any rational reason to choose the Ak over the AR.
As to which AR? Ironically I’m probably the last guy you should ask that question in 2020. I will say that I’d avoid guns that claim to be covered in magical unicorn jizz that makes them “better” (Hodge, KAC, Noveske, etc.), particularly for a first AR. they’re not really appreciably better, they often include snowflake parts, and anyone can see they are horribly more expensive. It’d be like buying a Ferrari for your first autocross. and, I bet that at your local matches you’ll take your “budget” AR and beat the snot out of a bunch of chords with those fancy guns and no idea how to shoot them.
What I would suggest is trying to find something from a reputable brand that comes stock at least with a handguard that extends past the gas block but not all the way out to the flash hider (having at least a couple inches of exposed barrel can be useful). I still prefer picatinny because:reasons but it’s heavier, fatter, tends to be more expensive, and has fallen out of fashion in favor of Mlok so I’d probably look for that. Stocks and grips are easier to change after purchase and matter less in the initial buy. Something like this seems a good option to me although I have no idea about current pricing g or availability
https://www.bravocompanymfg.com/spec...16_mcmr_lw.php
I’d start out with whatever is the least expensive 30mm Aimpoint made today and I’d put it in a fixed, non-throw-lever, absolute cowitness mount with flip up sights that include a same-plane rear aperture. This gives you the ability to truly co-witness the sights, the ability to deploy them at the range if they go down, flip them down if they become a distraction or flip them up to check zero or to use the front post in conjunction with the dot for distance shooting (a technique that tens to make dot shooters more accurate). I like irons that lock in the up position like the Troys because they can be run like “fixed” irons if you want to go that way later.
I’d put sling quick-detach mounting points at the front of the handguard, around about the barrel but, at the castle nut, and at the toe/heel of the stock and it attach some sort of quick adjust sling like the BFG. This is so that you have set yourself up to experiment with different mounting configurations as you go and aren’t stuck shooting with a sub optimal mounting solution until you can get to tools and change it.
As a side note, it appears that part of the world turning inside out is a run on firearms. I’d say now is t really time to buy, except that it also coincides with an impressive ding political sea change that may negatively impact our ability to buy guns like these sometime around the beginning of 2021, and at best will lead to an even longer run of panic buying and price hikes. Generally I’d tell a new buyer not to go the “assemble” route (we don’t “build” ARs, just like you don’t “build” legos) but today I’d probably try and at least lay hands on a stripped lower while you shop. Even if you stumble on a Colt CCU (which would be my pick but aren’t really being sold now) there’s nothing wrong with having a $100 lower sitting on a shelf.
As I’ve said in other threads, I’m only just starting to get into competition shooting now that I live somewhere that has it. So far with a rifle, it’s only been a few three gun matches at a range that favors shotgun far more than rifle. That being said, I have a lot of time on ARs (work and training classes mostly) and I’ve spent far more money tinkering with them then I have pistols so here are my thoughts.
1. Brands: the gucciest of ARs are now pretty much limited to KAC and Hodge. Hodge is closer to milspec in the sense of non-proprietary parts, but they’re far more difficult to get a hold of than KAC. Many consider KAC to be the pinnacle of ARs because they have gone to proprietary parts in a few places that make the gun better, in theory. Noveske used to be in that group but I wouldn’t include them anymore. Both of my Noveske lowers have been tight enough that they’re finicky with magazines dropping free and one of my uppers had a defective chrome lining job from the factory. They took care of it, but the barrel they replaced it with had a gas port that felt large enough that it must’ve been on the verge of unreliable from over-gassing. The next step down is BCM, SOLGW, Centurion, and maybe some others. These guns not only work but will suffice for almost every need, aside from maybe the most extreme and people just wanting to feel special with the Gucci stuff. I’ve spent money on two factory Noveskes and two different KAC uppers, I still have one of the uppers and love it, but I’ve often wondered what the extra money really got me over my BCMs. That being said, BCM barrels have been reported (from a large number of people) to be a little less consistent in the accuracy department, but I don’t know that I’ve ever seen that proven so hard to say. Personally, I believe that a BCM will not only be a great tool for just about any job, but it’ll also be available in the best configuration because they have so many options.
I’ll post my thoughts on configurations when I can.
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Agreed, and considering that @Medusa has a BMW racecar with a Chevy engine in it the complexities of an AR are probably not all that complex. A BCM bolt carrier group and a BCM barrel (or upper) would be a strong foundation that could be built around.
Buy or build an AR from a known vendor: BCM, SOLGW, Sionics, etc. Dont spend a fortune.
Pick an optic and trigger that jives with you. Holosun makes great inexpensive red dots. Burris makes great inexpensive LPVOs.
Go shoot.
Avoid going "all in" for your first rifle. If you're actually competing you'll learn what your preferences are pretty fast. You'll start changing things around to suit your preferences, and this extends beyond the rifle to include your mag carriers, belt, sling, etc.
Ammo and match fees add up fast. Take some time to figure out which cheap bulk ammo gives you acceptable and repeatable accuracy for your game of choice.
Glad to help. The Geissele has a good rep but I haven’t shot one. Will you use a suppressor?
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
Optics are not really a place to skimp if you can avoid it. Nothing wrong with Burris but like other manufacturers they make a range of products ranging from “Chineseium” to Duty grade optics.
For a about a 1/3 more than a Burris MTAC you can get into a Steiner PX4i. if you want a 1-4.
For reference, a good guide to minimum magnification is 1x per 100 yards is enough to help you hit targets but you need 2x per 100 to positively identify targets via your rifle scope.
The sweet spot for a “do it all” 5.56 AR is a 1-6 optic. The good news is the new hotness is 1-8 and 1-10 so there are some great deals on lightly used 1-6 optics out there.
Pretty sure the P4Xi went up in price and the Viper PST Gen IIs went down, so you might as well get a Vortex 1-6 unless the extra 2x isn’t worth the weight trade-off.
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re: optics in general...
You guys brought something to mind for me. I suggested an Aimpoint because (a) it's still the go-to for a "defense" carbine IMO and (b) the range where I used to shoot matches was limited to about a 150 yard max distance.
For the OP, I'd suggest going and watching one of the matches you might be thinking of participating and seeing what sort of distances they are shooting to, and use that information to inform your optic choice to at least some degree. If they are shooting 8" plates at 200 yards you certainly *can* make those hits with a 30mm Aimpoint, but it's going to prove challenging and may affect your enjoyment of the matches and the gun.
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