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Thread: USPSA and Corona

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    There is a national emergency order.

    If a quarantine canít be enforce under OH law it can be enforced under federal law.

    See 42 US code sections 264 through 271.

    See also 42 Code of Federal Regulations part 70.
    I'm referring to ordering the shut down of private businesses.

  2. #52
    Site Supporter Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    Gulf Coast regional IDPA match went up but there were a fair number of absences. However I have seen notification for two majors being cancelled.

    Our local USPSA club in Austin cancelled matches for the time being. If the city / county implement bans on meetings of 50 or more thats going to knock out all the local matches in the world's mecca of tactical shooting.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra View Post
    I'm referring to ordering the shut down of private businesses.
    Those statutes include the shutdown of private businesses, private schools, private gatherings etc. the constitution is not a suicide pact.

    Quarantine orders from the executive branch are subject to judicial review to ensure they are not misused but they are legitimate and will be enforced.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    Those statutes include the shutdown of private businesses, private schools, private gatherings etc.
    I read through them all and they do not. Then again, I go by the letter of the law and don't do this "constructive interpretation" bullshit so many statists are so in love with.

  5. #55
    Site Supporter Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra View Post
    I read through them all and they do not. Then again, I go by the letter of the law and don't do this "constructive interpretation" bullshit so many statists are so in love with.
    The government having the ability to do things in times of public health emergencies is a legal tradition in existence prior to the formation of England, much less the US. The government has the ability to do drastic things during a health crisis. Your belief it can't is utterly irrelevant.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zincwarrior View Post
    The government having the ability to do things in times of public health emergencies is a legal tradition in existence prior to the formation of England, much less the US. The government has the ability to do drastic things during a health crisis. Your belief it can't is utterly irrelevant.
    I believe in the rule of law, where emergency powers are defined in statute. I don't care if you love totalitarianism in case of emergency.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra View Post
    I read through them all and they do not. Then again, I go by the letter of the law and don't do this "constructive interpretation" bullshit so many statists are so in love with.
    Maybe the way YOU read them they donít but when read with a legal eye, they do. It is not an engineering statement of work specifying every detail. It is an open ended authorization for handling both foreseeable and unforeseen future emergencies.

    42 USC 264 is both clear and broad.

    a) Promulgation and enforcement by Surgeon General
    The Surgeon General, with the approval of the Secretary, is authorized to make and enforce such regulations as in his judgment are necessary to prevent the introduction, transmission, or spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the States or possessions, or from one State or possession into any other State or possession
    The open ended and ambiguous nature of the authority vested in the surgeon general under the statute is why judicial review is built in.

    Most states have similar provisions if you look hard enough.

    And because there are contrarian assholes who donít care about other peoples welfare 42 USC 271 and 42 CFR part 71 both provide for the arrest of persons breaking quarantine. Breaking quarantine is a misdemeanor punishable by up to one year confinement and a $100,000 fine. If breaking the quarantine results in a death it is a felony punishable by one year in jail and a $250,000 fine.

    During the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic persons who appeared in public and refused to wear masks as required were shot. Social distancing/quarantine procedures followed early enough can ensure we wonít have to go there again.
    .

  8. #58
    Site Supporter Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra View Post
    I believe in the rule of law, where emergency powers are defined in statute. I don't care if you love totalitarianism in case of emergency.

    The rule of law permits emergency actions resulting from public health crisis. As I said thats been a common law right BEFORE THERE WAS AN ENGLAND.

  9. #59
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    As a practicing attorney I'll echo HCM and Zincwarrior. There's almost no area of law - in fact, none at all that I can think of offhand - that is purely governed by statute. All law is interpreted through case law and precedent just as much as the letter of the law, and that's nothing new, it indeed predates the United States and all of the founding fathers were well aware of it. Legal authority was, when the Constitution was written, and is still, derived every bit as much from jurisprudence as from codified statutes.

    Edit: Edited to note that the modern trend for the last few decades has indeed been toward codified statutes and away from common law, but even those statutes are interpreted through the lens of case law and interpretation, and where common law hasn't been specifically supplanted by statute or contrary jurisprudence, it still generally holds.
    Last edited by LockedBreech; 03-16-2020 at 11:35 AM.
    Judicial Staff Attorney| Admitted Beretta and S&W M2.0 Fanboy

  10. #60
    Site Supporter Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LockedBreech View Post
    As a practicing attorney I'll echo HCM and Zincwarrior. There's almost no area of law - in fact, none at all that I can think of offhand - that is purely governed by statute. All law is interpreted through case law and precedent just as much as the letter of the law, and that's nothing new, it indeed predates the United States and all of the founding fathers were well aware of it. Legal authority was, when the Constitution was written, and is still, derived every bit as much from jurisprudence as from codified statutes.

    Edit: Edited to note that the modern trend for the last few decades has indeed been toward codified statutes and away from common law, but even those statutes are interpreted through the lens of case law and interpretation.
    If it helps multiple state jurisdictions permit wide powers by the governor or state executive in case of a health or weather crisis.

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