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Thread: VTOL in 1965, never knew of this before...

  1. #1

    VTOL in 1965, never knew of this before...

    I happened upon this recently, the XC-142, while on a wiki wander. They had something like this flying in the 60s, but it took how long to get the Osprey operational? Amazing.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTV_XC-142

    Ps I could have sworn I posted this before, but I can't find it.
    Last edited by MandoWookie; 03-13-2020 at 04:24 PM.

  2. #2
    Four String Fumbler Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    The concept is simple enough. The hard part is engineering something in case of engine failure.
    "You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
    "I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI

  3. #3
    I always liked the Convair POGO, from the early 50’s:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_XFY_Pogo

  4. #4
    Revolvers Revolvers 1911s Stephanie B's Avatar
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    I have a 1960s-era book that posits the air transport system of 1975. Civilian variants of the C-142 figured in for shorter-range city-to-city traffic.

    The technology of the time wasn't really up to it. Given how long it took to bring the V-22 into service (about 24 years), one might argue that things still aren't there.

    Unlike the V-22, the C-142 could land and then take off with the wing set at 0deg incidence.
    If we have to march off into the next world, let us walk there on the bodies of our enemies.

  5. #5
    My Dad worked at Bell Helicopter. Following the XV-15 that later evolved into the V22 was part of growing up.

    A few of my memories:

    The engineering for engine failure involved a transfer system where either engine could drive both sets of rotors.

    One of the more challenging aspects was transition from vertical flight to forward and from forward to vertical. There are many opportunities to stall. As I recall, advances in computer systems to help monitor and assist this were a significant factor.

    Finding qualified pilots was a challenge in the early days. They needed to be able to fly both fixed-wing and rotor, then needed to understand the transition. Think about how rudder pedals might act differently depending on the mode you're in. Again, I think improvements in computerized control assistance helped here.

    Support for the program waxed and waned under different administrations. There always seemed to be those with the sentiment of, "We have helicopters. We have planes. Why do we want something that does both?"

    I was a kid through most of these days so my memory may not be 100% accurate. As an adult, I do still remember my Dad's mood after the 2000 Marana crash -- he was pretty down.

  6. #6
    https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/new...g-grunt-units/

    Well, buried in this article it mentions the Corps is also disbanding there V-22 squadrons. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't the Marines the largest users of the V-22, and basically the main reason it was developed? Does this mean that the V-22 may end up like XC-142, another neat concept that didn't work out in practice?

  7. #7
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MandoWookie View Post
    https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/new...g-grunt-units/

    Well, buried in this article it mentions the Corps is also disbanding there V-22 squadrons. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't the Marines the largest users of the V-22, and basically the main reason it was developed? Does this mean that the V-22 may end up like XC-142, another neat concept that didn't work out in practice?
    They are disbanding a single V-22 squadron, Medium Tiltrotor Squadron 264 (VMM-264). That is one of 13 combat capable Medium Tiltrotor Squadrons along with a 14th training unit (VMMT-204). So, after this disbanding there will still be an even dozen combat VMM units and a 13th in the form of a training unit.

    Also bear in mind that the Navy has ordered 44 V-22s which are already being put into place and should be fully operational next year, prior to 2019 they had 0 in service. The Navy units were trained in the Marine Corps training unit and will certainly move to pick up quite a bit of the transportation-type roles that the Marines previously performed for the Navy using their V-22s.

    This is all part of the Commandant's effort to streamline the Marine Corps and actually help establish better mission statements and guidelines for the Corps. I commend the Commandant on those efforts, both to reduce potential bloat, but also to more clearly define the role of the USMC such that mission creep can be better avoided.

    I admit the loss of USMC Tank Corps is a bit disheartening to me. I think about armor as the lifeblood of a mechanized military force. But, in fact, today it really isn't. Air superiority and air-space control are far more important. The days of tank battles are all but gone, for us at least. With the precision of unmanned drones, precise munitions, cruise missiles, real-time reconnaissance, etc. A tank battalion leading the charge is almost as archaic as a pith-helmeted officer leading his men over the wire into no-man's land with a whistle in his mouth and a pistol in his hand.

  8. #8
    @MandoWookie, as I read the article, the plan is to deactivate HMM-264, one of the 18 tiltrotor squadrons the USMC was scheduled to have as of FY19.

  9. #9
    Hammertime
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in PNG View Post
    The concept is simple enough. The hard part is engineering something in case of engine failure.
    Can an Osprey function on one engine!?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Glock View Post
    Can an Osprey function on one engine!?
    Yep.

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