Competition Bad Habits? Do any exist? Competing Anonymously possible?

[olstyn]

I would recommend anyone that is serious about shooting, be it for self-defense or for work, to go shoot competition. Chances are you will run into someone who is REALLY good, and get a proper reality check as to what your actual abilities are.
Hopefully, it will motivate you to become better. Improving your shooting and gun handling skills, and regularly testing them under pressure of competition will make you better at problem solving, as you are not spending mental capacity on thinking about what you need to do with the gun.

^
All kinds of this. USPSA competition definitely isn't about tactics, but people who get into it with even a small amount of drive to improve unquestionably come out the other side able to shoot faster, safer, more accurately, and with lower mental "task load" than before they started competing, and not by a small amount. I've watched lots of new competitors go from slow and somewhat scary to a level I'd call safe and competent just over the course of one summer.

Obviously specific improvement levels vary from person to person, but the only people I can think of who haven't improved at all are the ones who get offended and quit when they DQ for doing something unsafe and those who simply keep going doing the wrong thing despite receiving tons of good advice.

[AGR416]

I took the point of this thread to do just that - help separate aspects of both.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But your examples are poor.

I’ve only shot a handful of matches (less than 10) and I’ve never been in a gunfight, but there are two things that have always stuck out to me that people do in competition but probably not what you want to do in a real fight: reloading on the move and failure to use cover.

As I said, there is no cover in competition, so why bring it up? Shooting an IPSC/USPSA stage is not a military battle drill. Nor is it training for the same. If you go to a USPSA match and think you are training for CQB, you need a reality check (general you, no you specifically).

Reloading on the move is something you do in competition in order to increase your efficiency.
That said, there are certain circumstances where you will reload on the move in a tactical setting as well, for example a reconnaissance patrol breaking contact to the rear. Reloads with retention are not SOP for that, and you reload while bounding backwards (peeling) or when you are at the rally line and start bounding sideways to disengage the unit from the fight.

[Wake27]

But your examples are poor.



As I said, there is no cover in competition, so why bring it up? Shooting an IPSC/USPSA stage is not a military battle drill. Nor is it training for the same. If you go to a USPSA match and think you are training for CQB, you need a reality check (general you, no you specifically).

Reloading on the move is something you do in competition in order to increase your efficiency.
That said, there are certain circumstances where you will reload on the move in a tactical setting as well, for example a reconnaissance patrol breaking contact to the rear. Reloads with retention are not SOP for that, and you reload while bounding backwards (peeling) or when you are at the rally line and start bounding sideways to disengage the unit from the fight.

Uhh no they’re not. If the point is to separate event specific techniques, they’re entirely relevant for the exact reasons you say. There’s zero point to using cover in USPSA, though that’s unlikely to be true in an SD shooting. This is one of the few areas where competition skills and techniques wouldn’t cross over, which is why I brought it up.

Reloading on the move is far less of an absolute, but I mentioned it because it’s definitely at least a consideration for the majority of scenarios.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[deflave]

Cover is incorporated into the majority of USPSA stages.

[Clusterfrack]

Cover is incorporated into the majority of USPSA stages.

USPSA often puts the shooter in a variety of positions, but cover from incoming fire is not part of our game.

If you meant cover for the targets, that's a good point. Sometimes we even have the opportunity to shoot through soft cover, or avoid targets that are partially covered by no-shoots.

[AGR416]

Uhh no they’re not. If the point is to separate event specific techniques, they’re entirely relevant for the exact reasons you say. There’s zero point to using cover in USPSA, though that’s unlikely to be true in an SD shooting. This is one of the few areas where competition skills and techniques wouldn’t cross over, which is why I brought it up.

Reloading on the move is far less of an absolute, but I mentioned it because it’s definitely at least a consideration for the majority of scenarios.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Again, there is no correlation between proper tactics and a USPSA stage.

You are arguing a point no one has made - no one is saying that shooting IPSC/USPSA is good training for self defense or tactics. It is a good measure of shooting and gun-handling skills.

If you want to get better at self defense, take classes/training that directly focus on that, which is scenario based training.

[deflave]

USPSA often puts the shooter in a variety of positions, but cover from incoming fire is not part of our game.

If you meant cover for the targets, that's a good point. Sometimes we even have the opportunity to shoot through soft cover, or avoid targets that are partially covered by no-shoots.

Yes. It forces you to use cover as opposed to seeking it out.

But it implements the use of cover under stress. That's all I was trying to say.

[Clusterfrack]

Yes. It forces you to use cover as opposed to seeking it out.

But it implements the use of cover under stress. That's all I was trying to say.

Sorry, I'm not tracking. USPSA shooters don't use cover.

[AGR416]

Yes. It forces you to use cover as opposed to seeking it out.

But it implements the use of cover under stress. That's all I was trying to say.

You are in no way measured on correct use of cover to protect yourself from incoming fire, be when engaging targets or during movement.

You have vision barriers that block targets from being engaged, as well as hard cover painted on target or the use of no-shoots to force harder shots.

[Clusterfrack]

On another related subject: at a match yesterday, I squadded with a newer tactically-oriented shooter who was running a Beretta 92 and shooting Lim minor. This dude had quite a few issues, and I think he got a lot out of the experience. He learned that he needed to get better at clearing malfunctions, and also that putting partially empty mags back on his belt wasn't a great idea. But the most interesting thing was how he wasn't able to fight through difficulties during a stage. He simply gave up when his gun didn't work or he unexpectedly ran out of ammo (but actually had more full mags on his belt). We talked about that for a while. I think the biggest USPSA take-away for him was understanding that he needed to work on mental toughness.