is there a defensive scenario where this would actually be a problem? You're in a situation that eventually turns into a justifiable shooting that has 20-120 seconds of "before" time that's entirely in your control?
My guess answer is "maybe", but even then I'm not sure. I'm guessing that while the tweaker with the knife is standing in front of you demanding your wallet (or whatever other draw-from-concealment scenario you envision) you're going to be pretty fixated on him, and most likely the knife itself, USPSA participation be damned. Or, when that guy storms your church and you're closing the distance to shoot him in the head, I don't find it terribly likely that you're going to be looking at the ground playing out the scenario.
But I could be wrong.
Here's something else I want to say about "kilt in da streets..."
A whole damn lot of the tactical crowd don't like competition for one simple reason... their scores suck. They have mastered dot torture at their thursday night range sessions, they "do well" at the classes they take (largely because the instructors aren't idiots and know that if you leave feeling bad about yourself you won't come back, but maybe that's a different topic...), they might even have a sub-second draw from appendix (or whatever the time benchmark is today), and so on.
Then they hit a match. Maybe even the special olympics of competition, IDPA, because they think that's the "tactical" one. And they find out that even at the special olympics a lot of folks come to win and they get their shit pushed in by some doughy accountant from the gated community down the block. Out come the excuses. "I was shooting it tactically" or "they won't let me shoot from apendix" or "my real-world cover garment isn't 'legal' in IDPA", or, or or. *Maybe* they go to USPSA, because they CAN use their "real world" gear. Now they're mad that the rules aren't "fair". "yeah, they let me use my carry gear but my local match won't let me shoot from concealment and they're forcing me into open with all those 'game guns' (clutch pearls) where I never stand a chance". Plus, "and I was using 'real world' tactics".
I think that most guys go through this cycle without even realizing it. And in today's world where you can go home, fire up the computer, and find like-minded folks to help you solidify that bubble you're building around yourself and help you justify all of the above and more. Pushing you further into your socially isolated opinion that gun games will get you killed.
I know all of this because I was that guy. Not all of it, but a lot of it.
Then one day my head popped out of my ass (at least partially, anyway) and it ocurred to me that "these things don't matter because they are two different things". Nobody expects Emerson Fittipaldi to crash his minivan simply because he was at a track last week. Usain Bolt isn't sprinting from his car to the grocery store simply because he's a runner. Magnús Ver Magnússon doesn't hurl bags of mulch over his own roof on during his Saturday yard work simply because lifting is lifting and he can't tell it's not an atlas stone.
We conflate ninja shooting and game shooting simply because we can't see past the end of our own gun. We think shooting is shooting or guns are guns or "it's not the stakes it's the odds" (wait, do I have that backward? I can never remember, smells the same forward and backward). Or, we go looking for reasons to excuse the suckitude of our own shooting and in the process miss out on something that matters a whole lot more to your longevity that how you will perform in your fantasy gunfight: fun. Enjoyment. Happiness. Camaraderie.
See all of my above posts. My assumption is that they believe the same thing I do - there are significant benefits to shooting competition, hopefully they just agree that there is possibility that not everything is a 1:1 transfer and they have considered that.
That's in part because an AR/416 feels nothing like a GPMG like the 240. There are very obvious tactile differences that indicate to your brain that you're not shooting an M4. A lot of people won't use certain accessories on a platform because their duty/CC guns don't have that. An example would be a BAD lever or ambi controls. The platform is the same so the differences are small, and you're much more likely to potentially make a mistake.
But more to my point, I'm not saying that humans are incapable of separating the two. All I've ever said is that they need to consider that they might have to separate the two. You have obviously considered that manual of arms for a GPMG is different than an M4, that's all I'm advocating - consider that it may be possible. To continue using your analogy, the way I'm seeing this debate is that several members here are saying there is no possible difference in the way you'd operate a 240 vs M4.
There is a significant distinct difference between competition and gunfights as well, namely that during one of them, people are shooting back at you.
But you are saying that because one shoots competition, that the "training scars" established there will override this pretty significant distinction.
I don't get it, no one has argued that competition is training for self-defense so why do you insist that competition skills will be used for self-defense?
That is not what we are saying, at all.To continue using your analogy, the way I'm seeing this debate is that several members here are saying there is no possible difference in the way you'd operate a 240 vs M4.
We are saying that it is possible to learn both and operate both, with no negative effect.
Last edited by AGR416; 03-16-2020 at 11:14 AM.
I watched this today from Modern Samurai Project and thought of this thread:
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_1YDkpBp7M" target="_blank">
Scott is a buddy.
I suggest people watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EkDq_SJpHo&t=3352s
Two legit US SOF Shooters talk about how competition has helped their community.