Competition Bad Habits? Do any exist? Competing Anonymously possible?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

As I indicted above,

why can’t we design a completion that puts the self defense first and the game second?

There were events like that - the NTI FOF ATSA village. 360 degree shoot houses with sophisticated realistic targets. Well, scripted and complex FOF with trained opponents. It was terribly complex to set up and run. By invitation only and not without controversy esp. when folks argued about scenario calls. The best instructors were there and me (haha!). It was not without pain at times (Code Eagle, Sims, close in airsoft) - you could mildly bleed. As I said, wife said you are a crazy old man and the liberal arts folks looked askance at the bruises in the gym. Students thought it was neat. I'm getting a touch old for this now. I prefer a sedate match.

That level of event can't be easily put on at the local match level. Now, when I was in TX, there were some specifically short range matches to try to be a touch realistic and based on real incidents (I reported an AAR or two on these). So I shot carry guns - G26, 642s, G42s. Some guys would still show up with some USPSA Hans Solo special with a competition holster and gun with the Hubble telescope for a sight. That negated the purpose of the match, IMHO. For instance, a longer range one shot only head shot to eliminate a bad guy with a bomb (taken from a real incident) - what's the challenge with the blaster as compared to a 642 or G42 (made them, BTW).

[Moylan]

I just want to commend rob_s for really taking his time in composing his response. A lot of us dash off replies in a month or two, but rob is clearly holding himself to a higher standard.

[Kirk]

@Sanch, it may be that it’s been a long couple of days and I’m a little grumpy. That said, you’re way off base about competition making people “a little better”. Comparing a C class USPSA shooter to the average guy, tactical Timmy, or average LEO makes it clear how even the low levels of the sport make people a lot better at shooting. Then consider what that person can do when they are also trained in defensive tactics.

At the higher end, I know some GMs who are SWAT team leaders. I’d love to have you chat with them about how competition made them “a little better”.

USPSA is about shooting at the limits of human performance. That’s what it’s for, and if you want tactical training you need to get that as well, but separately.

Excellent points here. USPSA is the MMA of shooting. It'll push your ability to run a gun to the highest levels. The difference is that you rarely hear people say "MMA is trash! It'll give you training scars!"

Sure, you need tactical training as well, but nothing will make you a better pure shooter than dedicating time to getting to a high level in USPSA.

[CraigS]

IDPA has made me a much better pistol shooter. Prior to 3 yrs ago my shooting choices were a standard indoor and a standard outdoor range. Standing still and shooting at stationary cardboard. I could up my skill level at the indoor range because their target holders could be made to turn 90 deg so all you had was the edge to shoot at until it flipped around. Time on the edge and time at a shootable angle could be set. So that was kind of fun. No holster work at the indoor. At the outdoor I could use a holster but, unless I was there by myself, I was still standing still shooting. Then my SIL talked me into trying IDPA. I am far from great at this, usually happy to be in the top half of the field overall and the occasional top third. But if I ever need it, it won't be the first time I have had to shoot;
-quickly from my holster under my coat,
-from retention,
-around the side of a barricade, either side,
-squatting and shooting under something,
-throwing myself down on the ground and shooting while laying on my side,
-walking backwards, or sideways,
-quickly after a reload,
-through both front windows (open) of a car,
-out the open sliding door of a van while sitting in the driver's seat,
-at a moving target,
-at a target popping up from behind cover.
I can't afford to spend $500-$5000 on good classes but I can afford the $15 entry fee and the 150 rounds shot at match. And I get to watch the other better shooters and ask them questions. I don't care if it is a game, it allows me to shoot in ways I could never do otherwise and it is so dang much fun.

[19852+]

IDPA has made me a much better pistol shooter. Prior to 3 yrs ago my shooting choices were a standard indoor and a standard outdoor range. Standing still and shooting at stationary cardboard. I could up my skill level at the indoor range because their target holders could be made to turn 90 deg so all you had was the edge to shoot at until it flipped around. Time on the edge and time at a shootable angle could be set. So that was kind of fun. No holster work at the indoor. At the outdoor I could use a holster but, unless I was there by myself, I was still standing still shooting. Then my SIL talked me into trying IDPA. I am far from great at this, usually happy to be in the top half of the field overall and the occasional top third. But if I ever need it, it won't be the first time I have had to shoot;
-quickly from my holster under my coat,
-from retention,
-around the side of a barricade, either side,
-squatting and shooting under something,
-throwing myself down on the ground and shooting while laying on my side,
-walking backwards, or sideways,
-quickly after a reload,
-through both front windows (open) of a car,
-out the open sliding door of a van while sitting in the driver's seat,
-at a moving target,
-at a target popping up from behind cover.
I can't afford to spend $500-$5000 on good classes but I can afford the $15 entry fee and the 150 rounds shot at match. And I get to watch the other better shooters and ask them questions. I don't care if it is a game, it allows me to shoot in ways I could never do otherwise and it is so dang much fun.

I agree, I was the same way many years ago. I loved to shoot but I knew there must be something more than stand and deliver at the range behind the table. I've tried USPSA, like it, but I've moved on to 2 gun which is my new passion of gun games. There is a certain amount of freedom I enjoy in 2 gun that I don't enjoy with IDPA. The bottom line is that one gets what one puts into it. I can run and gun or shoot tactically, my choice. Reload as necessary and use my imagination to figure out a way to shoot the stage better. I still like and shoot IDPA.

[jeep45238]

Worst habit I see is more on the administrative handling side of things. Unload and show clear, followed by a trigger press - I can see that building a negative habit where someone becomes complacent outside of a match and has an ND.

Generally this happens when folks are working to go through the motions quickly at small local matches, same thing as loading the gun and then getting a sight picture through their optic to play with brightness settings, or ramming quickly into a holster.

[jetfire]

The difference is that you rarely hear people say "MMA is trash! It'll give you training scars!"

So like a lot of shooters I'm also a degenerate MMA fan; and interestingly you hear people say this all the time. Usually it's the people who proponents of like...WW2 style combatives or "reality based self defense" which usually involves a lot of eye gouges or groin strikes. They'll say dumb shit like "oh well MMA/BJJ/MT only works in the ring, in the real world I'd just fish-hook that guy and gouge his eyeball out."

Which of course is a completely idiotic notion, since a trained fighter who understands range management isn't going to let you get close enough to use your fishgouge or whatever

[JJN]

One thing I've been trying to beat out of myself is getting back on the trigger after a reload. Probably things aren't going to be in the same array and requiring the same shoot/no shoot decisions as 1-3 seconds ago when the reload was required.
Jon

[FNFAN]

Worst habit I see is more on the administrative handling side of things. Unload and show clear, followed by a trigger press - I can see that building a negative habit where someone becomes complacent outside of a match and has an ND.

Generally this happens when folks are working to go through the motions quickly at small local matches, same thing as loading the gun and then getting a sight picture through their optic to play with brightness settings, or ramming quickly into a holster.

Agreed. The Unload and show clear, followed by a trigger press -for me, is done with a sight picture on one of the targets. Takes maybe a tenth of a second extra. Some SO's seem to think it's unnecessary and whine like terriers. I just give them a scratch behind the ear.

[rob_s]

Worst habit I see is more on the administrative handling side of things. Unload and show clear, followed by a trigger press - I can see that building a negative habit where someone becomes complacent outside of a match and has an ND.

If that was the case, I'd think we'd have heard about it happening far more often.